Dura Ace going wireless and 13 spd?

I just want to add my input to this conversation. I recently went to a SRAM AXS setup from Di2 (I had Di2 for 4-years I think) - the change to AXS is due to my bike becoming totaled and I figured I would give AXS a try.

I must say since I have had AXS on my bike for only 6-months, in that 6-months time I have had the battery die twice on me during a ride and I think I have forgot to grab the RD battery off the charger maybe 6-7 times now and had to walk back up my driveway (I live on a slight downhill).

When I am in the zone to get ready for a ride, I just grab my bike and go and if the battery is sitting on the charger I might overlook it (I am crazy time limited). I have started charging the battery’s every 2-3 days because the battery’s are such short life in my experience and its honestly not something I want to remember.

That being said, I think the AXS has inferior shifting (it just clunky and slow) in comparison to the 11-spd Di2 and the ergonomics are not comfortable to me. I have a spare bike that is Ultegra Mechanical Disc and it honestly is so much smoother and quieter than the AXS and feel more comfortable in my hand. The other thing is in all the years of having the Di2 it only died on me (1) time while riding. The system would notify my Garmin every couple months that the battery is getting low and I would hook a charging cable to it as soon as I got home and then forget about it for months.

That being said, I think AXS has some pretty cool gearing options and I was excited to try them out. I have (2) 1x bikes now and after playing with 1x gearing for a few years now I have settled on the fact that for me 52/36 x 11-30 truly is the best gearing for me on a road bike. I tried to get along with a 50 x 10-33 but to me it was not for me.

That being said, I cant wait to try out the new 13-speed Shimano and maybe its going to be clunky and slow like the 12-speed AXS :imp:

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AXS RD batteries last around 60h ride time (per SRAM). Depends on how much you shift obviously. They warn you of a low battery with ~5h left; if you pair the shifter to your head you get a warning there. An obvious advantage is if you have a dead/low battery for whatever reason it takes a moment to swap in a fresh battery pre- or even mid-ride. This is generally hypothetical in my experience, I’ve never actually had a SRAM battery get low enough to not shift.

I think this debate is largely academic, as Shimano will almost certainly go to full wireless in the next iteration of their groups. On the MTB side they’ve so completely missed the boat on wireless shifting that few frames support easy battery placement and wire routing, so if they want to have any play in that market they have to go wireless. And I’m sure road frame designers would love to quit having to design around those elements as well.

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You’re killing the battery life by leaving it in the charger and by charging it far too frequently. Charge it, put it back on your bike. Problem solved.

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Better still, get a spare battery. Connect your RD to your head unit. Ride till you get a “low battery” alert on the head unit. (On Wahoo you helpfully get a reminder when you end your ride, not just a mid-ride notification.) When that happens, at the end of your ride swap on a fresh battery and charge the other. Your bike is always ready to go, nothing to forget.

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I’m really not sure what the pro of wireless is for shifting - cable routing is a one time job and wireless just adds risk into the mix seemingly without major benefit.

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I’ve got one that is 8 years old and has done maybe 50,000 miles and it’s still going strong. As in, I still get ~1000 miles of riding between charges. So not really an issue worth worrying about IME.

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For me, the the ease of the micro adjust and you can pair road shifters with MTB rear derailleurs and cassettes.

Really? Unless AXS is using NiCd batteries or not using smart charging protection circuits for Li-ion leaving a battery plugged in should not be an issue.

I have seen a case (see story above with my former team mate) where that can go wrong (where the battery either did not charge correctly or discharged over night). Does that happen frequently? No. But neither does that happen with Etsy batteries.

Provided you have that proprietary charging cable with you. If you are at home, cool. If you are out and about, that might be an issue.

Doesn’t sound good to be honest. We should get percentages like we get with smartphones or my head unit. The same goes for SRAM, obviously.

Personal preference as in Shimano vs. SRAM or central battery vs. wireless? In many discussions on this topic I feel people start from the former and go backwards.

In the big picture, I’m certain Shimano will go wireless, because they have to. At least on the MTB side. And then the question is whether it makes sense for road group sets to stay wired. This is especially important since mullet group sets have become popular and Shimano has no (up-to-date) offering. Not sure if their M9000-series XTR Di2 groupset is still on sale and compatible with 12-speed road shifters.

Many weeks with regular use (4–5 times a week, mostly on the trainer in resistance mode). I should keep notes. The spare battery simplifies my life, because once I see a battery warning, I pop in my fresh spare, put the nearly empty one on the charger and it is usually completely charged once I am back.

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I charge mine maybe once a month? It’s honestly not frequent enough for me to think of it as a bother. I just click the shifters friday nights and see if the light is green. My only issues is, for example, last week when the lights were green, then when I get to the start of a 5+ hour ride on saturday morning I got a “battery critical” warning. Really? Where is the “battery low” warning? We have phones and head units. It should be easier to track battery status.

Removing and popping batteries on the charger is easier than charging my lights and about the same as charging my head unit (which I need to do more frequently than my sram batteries anyway). I already have usb cables lying around to charge all sorts of things. I’m not super thrilled with the idea of a proprietary cable for my bike (can’t you just make that USB-c too, shimano?). And I sure would like to be able to set the bike to be stuck in the big ring rather than the small if worst comes to worst and I have a long flat ride home.

But I do think I’ll pull the trigger on a Di2 sooner than latter. I’m worried about wireless batteries that are not interchangeable being the worst of both worlds.

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Not sure how that’s any different than AXS. The charging station is proprietary also.

Maybe my Garmin gives percentages. I honestly don’t know. Haven’t ever felt the need to check the battery level with Di2. Can’t say I’ve ever been worried about the battery level. Whether it’s 90% or 40% doesn’t really affect my riding at all. And when I get the Low Battery alert I still have about 10 hours of use.

Either really. I prefer Shimano shifting but even if they went fully wireless I’d stick with the internal battery until I was forced to give it up. Even if SRAM shifting was up to par for my riding I’d pick the internal battery of Di2. I vastly prefer this setup so SRAM would have to offer something super amazing to get me to switch. And I don’t even know what that would be honestly, I much prefer Shimano with current offerings.

Good to know. And like I said earlier, it’s just personal preference. You have yours and I have mine. I charge my system about once every 3-4 months. And it’s me parking my bike in it’s normal spot and taking 5 seconds to attach the cable to the RD. It couldn’t get any simpler. But I understand that everybody’s situation is different and many prefer having removable batteries to charge and swap. That would annoy me but it works for many people.

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This is actually why I returned the Karoo. Terrible battery life. With the new solar Garmin, I can go more than a month between charges. It just stays on the bike. The most annoying item I have is the Garmin Varia because I have to charge it every 3-4 rides. They need to figure out a better battery situation there. If you can see the trend, I like big batteries that last a long time.

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At the risk of flying off topic, I had not heard anything good about the solar on the garmin units–yours actually charges? Maybe I’ll reopen my mind about those. I think my 530 gives me about 10-15 hours of riding if the screen is on. Arizona is hard on batteries.

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I love it. As far as I can tell it charges. Either that or they greatly improved the battery. I don’t really care to be honest (as in, I dont care what is helping the battery as long it helps). The battery lasts forever. And it does seem to have a slower battery drain on sunny days so I’m assuming it’s working. I’ll go for a 3-4 hour ride and have less than 5% drain.

Can check the Di2 battery level via the app or via your head unit. I have a screen on my garmin showing battery levels for all my connected devices. The alerts mentioned above trigger when Di2 battery hits 40% (=Low) and 20% (=Critical). I get somewhere close to 1000 miles before hitting 40% so once you get that alert you’re in no real danger of running out of battery before you get home.

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If you have a FD, you ride with a second battery. You temporarily lose front shifts. Or you could pack a spare.

My preference actually lies with the shape of the shifters and SRAM’s buttons. I never liked Shimano’s road shifters, neither mechanical nor Di2. Brakes feel is better, too. I prefer SRAM’s wireless approach, but if it were reversed, it wouldn’t be a deal breaker and I’d ride what I preferred otherwise.

My mountain bike has XTR M9000 mechanical FWIW.

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What a funny world we live in. We’re like the exact opposite in preference. I greatly prefer the feel of Shimano levers and the brakes. I was never a fan of the single button shifting either. Funnily enough, when I did have a MTB I have a SRAM drivetrain. Shimano brakes though. But for my next MTB I probably would do SRAM again. They make great MTB groups but I’m not a fan of their road stuff. C’est la vie.

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Speaking of ergonomics, SRAM’s now-official new RED has very different ergonomics, an improved FD and (apparently) hugely improved braking. Too $$$ to be worth upgrading for me, but if/when this trickles down to Force or Rival I’d be interested.

Fact that this new halo group is fully backward compatible with their whole 12s ecosystem (including T-type MTB) is really nice, and something Shimano would obviously lose with hypothetical 13s wireless DA. TBH Shimano is so in the wilderness in the MTB/1x space at this point, this may not even enter into their thinking.

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That’s about right from anecdote from Paris Brest Paris which is approx that distance. Thus riders will burn through a fully charged DI2 battery between 2 to 4 days. Obviously depends on how much you shift over the period.

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And that matters more than batteries or Dot fluid vs. mineral oil :duck: :grin:

The best feature is full backwards compatibility IMHO.

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