Yes, will give a follow up with some N=1 anecdotes (maybe in the sweet spot progression thread)… 4 VO2max workouts done by now and so far happy with that experiment…
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I made a test yesterday with a 6 min/step ramp and found my LT1 at 75% of max heartrate. It feels correct to me as it’s the point where breathing started to change. That’s the upper limit of endurance zone 2(out of 7) if you use heartrate.
However, the LT1 power I reached during the test is 82% ftp, in my mid-tempo zone.
My question is: Do you use the LT1 test to change your endurance zone ?
Additional info: my ftp was tested 3 weeks ago. I’m definitely slow twitch, most of my rides were done at 75% max heartrate in the past years, rarely going above. I only started doing intervals and using power zones a few months ago. Endurance zone feels really easy, more like recovery on a heart point of view.
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For people using the Colab workbook, do you get the .fit file directly from your bike computer?
I downloaded mine from Garmin Connect but there didn’t seem to be any HRV data in it.
Edit: Silly me, I had HRV logging disabled.
No - dont change zones - just remember where it fell and if/when you decide to do specific sessions targeting around LT1 then you can use those numbers.
The 7 zone model is not anchored around LT1.
I did not. But I don’t really use a time in zone model to guide my training.
If it helps: prior to thinking about LT1 (and reading ISM training concepts), my training was essentially a sweetspot based model. Standard stuff where easy rides were recovery, long rides were just riding along and then sweetspot/threshold and supra threshold. Look at TR SSBMV2, general build, and that would be an approximation. My prior coach was a sweetspot / threshold guy and we were targeting 15-35 min time trials.
Incorporating LT1, I moved some of that SST/Threshold time down and some of that easy recovery time up. It would sound cooler if I added more detail and had a nice progressive overload scheme to share, but didn’t do anything fancy. Just time in and around LT1 with some harder days ( “stuff” ) thrown in, some race approximations, and accumulating as much time riding in and around LT1 as I could.
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Remember to factor in duration. Yes, during that 6 min/step ramp you found a power and HR that corresponded to LT1. But you were (presumably) fairly fresh and the test didn’t take that long. So yeah, .82 IF wouldn’t be outside the realm of possibility. At the beginning of most of my LT1 rides, my power is sometimes 20W higher than previous assessment for about 20 mins or so. It then levels. If I go long enough, it falls 
(of course, right? lol)
Try this: ride at your LT1 HR (75% max) and let power just come (or go). Clamp HR and you will not hold .82 IF forever.
Agree with this. Don’t mix or try to reconcile different zone systems, you’ll be stuck on the internet too long if you do that.
Yes, up a bit, more consistent, not huge but 50-100 +/- TSS over my SST type programming. From memory was getting a good 8-12 hours per week and hitting 3-4 hour rides regularly. Volume, to a point, has always been good for me.
I did this programming first year of covid. With lockdowns the roads were empty of cars. Couldn’t mountain bike as parks were closed (and also didn’t want to crash and need hospital help). So I rode solo a lot outside. May-June-July looks like consistent 600-650 TSS weeks.
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Training a lot at a relatively easy intensity just flat works. I started using DFA1 alpha around 8 months ago and LT1 is 123-124, so I train 120 and below. My “test” is 90 minutes 118-122 in TT position on trainer, and over the course of that time period I’ve gone from 205w to 243w. I’ve worked with a coach for 6 years and what we’ve morphed into is him giving me 1 “hard” ride and 1 “hard” run a week depending on time of year, and as much <LT1 cycling and <130HR running as I can handle (I can’t get clean data running for DFA1 alpha). Running pace has dropped from 8:15-8:20 to 7:10-7:20. It’s pretty unbelievable. And these aren’t “new to endurance sport” gains either. I’ve raced since 2000 and am 40 in a few weeks. The best part is with so much easy training I’m actually looking forward to getting out daily and enjoying it - actually look forward to the harder workouts now.
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Do you use it also outdoors? Are there differences in values when testing indoor vs outdoor? Maybe not in heart rate but power could be lower indoor.
If you have a garmin 1030 you can use DFA Alpha1 IQ connect to show the value on your garmin screen.
With fatmaxxer you can use the notification to get it on your device for using outdoor. But for my edge 530 that did not work. I only got the notification that fatmaxxer is started 
.
Could be usefull in the near future that extra datafield is available on your garmin or other bike device. Because outdoor you normally don’t use your smartphone I think? For live tracking…could be handy. I think. 
That would be interesting to try out on all my weekly endurance rides, but its only the 1030… Connect IQ Store | Free Watch Faces and Apps | Garmin
Sent a note to the developer asking if there are plans to support the 530.
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Surges of up to 10 seconds well spread out don’t seem to have a measurable effect on HR. My understanding is those are ok to add into a few rides here and there as they’re more neuromuscular in nature - note though that they’re surges, not 10x10 seconds hard and 1:50 off. If you surge for a minute though, you’ve just changed your workout. In short, I really don’t surge all that much on the bike. I do however incorporate 5-10 second strides towards the end of runs with walking in between.
Regarding your specific question though, I don’t look at power until after, ever. But I do use it during races and use HR as secondary. So if I’m training my hard ride consists of 2x30 minutes z3/z4 (in a 5 zone model), I’ll do that workout by HR. After the fact I’ll look at power and then base race decisions on what power I’ve seen in training.
I’ve stopped basing much on power in training as it led me down a road of chasing a number that may or may not be appropriate depending on time of day, time of year, work life, social life, etc. HR stays constant
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I just use the same HR inside and out and don’t worry about power. Luckily I only have a 530 and can’t get the DFA1 data to pop up. I say luckily because I’ve gone down the road of being too “sciency” with this stuff and it takes away from training enjoyment. So I take the 123-124, keep it below 120 and I feel confident I’m below LT1. Also, per Plews - being in the correct HR zone illicits the correct physiological benefits regardless of power - so if it’s hot then yea power lower, if cold likely higher.
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Had exactly the same reaction. Its even in my logbook and mentioned it in one of the threads on the forum. Road riding became fun again. I would look forward to a hard Tuesday session or a fake race (TT) with friends on the weekend. 3-4 hour rides were pleasant. Fitness was pretty good too.
We should start a “not time crunched” movement!!!
Since we’re all having a cool conversation here… I’ve wondered about paths to fitness. There are so many ways to train. I’ve tried a few and for time spent, end up in a similar spot.
So… if all roads lead to Rome it may not matter how you get there,. Then I’d pick the one that brought me the most enjoyment. This more endurance focused plus some stuff approach, using LT1 as a point of reference, sure was more fun than any of the SST type plans I’ve run.
With retirement not far off, going to have opportunity to do this more systematically and see what happens.
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I try to be mindful of all of the work I’ve done over the last 22 years and am certainly aware I’ve had success essentially doing every way of training you can think of. Friel periodIzed, reverse periodization, sweet spot heavy through TR several years back, threshold, now what appears to be more polarized, etc. They definitely all build on each other.
I’m with you though, over the past 18 months I really started to have some physical troubles and as I noted earlier I’m just short of 40. I started thinking about how awful 50 would look if I kept this up and decided a change was needed. The fact that I’ve seen drastic improvements is just a plus to the fact that I don’t feel like absolute hell every morning anymore. My feeling is lots of easy and just a little bit hard is definitely right if you’re playing the long game.
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Yeah, I heard Kolie on the training peaks pod last week saying that, and fact is he is much more knowledgeable than I am and likely 100% spot on. The problem for me (and likely most) comes in is slightly above LT1 into zone 3 (5 zone model) actually doesn’t feel hard at all. Doing it once, no big deal - doing it several rides in your week and suddenly you’re smashed. That’s a road I’ve driven many times.
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FWIW,
I’m 55 now. Ridden since my dad put wood blocks on the pedals on a tandem. Raced on and off since age 10. I’m a bike lifer. from about 2005 to 2020 was all in on racing. Ended up being a TT focused guy but did a ton of crits, road, some dirt and even a touch of track.
After 15 years all in on mostly SST/Threshold based stuff, I was toast. Some good years, some nice performance. But a nagging feeling that I was working too hard for the results.
Covid hit and racing is on hold and I’m free to try something. Reading the ISM, Mafftone, etc, start thinking there is a better way to skin the cat. That was the impetus for the LT1 stuff. Plus, had the lactate device so why not use it and the data rather than just collect numbers.
I was very surprised how well I responded to the LT1. Won’t repeat the above details but boy it was good. Next step is to do it again and add some volume and actually think about the “stuff” part. For the first time in a while am excited to think about and do some training.
Bikes and stories. They go together!
Ah and on quick edit - No. I don’t think time crunched is really a good or effective thing.
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Where do I sign up?! 
I actually started a “non time crunched thread” a long time ago. Was not really successful, 99% of all postings were from time crunched folks complaining that they are time crunched
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Lets get it going again - I think there could be som much rich discussion about topics like this, recovery, use of longer z2 work, interesting ‘endurance plus’ work etc etc.
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+1 for me. I am no time crunched rider, or try not to be ;-).
Another remark on LT1 riding as endurance sessions. Evoq.bike also is in favor of doing the Z2 rides in the upper Z2. Also that would give some good gains in the long term. Maybe this is a little bit the same? Because LT1 is not for everyone mid-Z3 