I had decided not to complain even though I’ve had a rather poor experience with the new AIFTP, but now it’s acting very strange and I feel I’m way into bug territory. So I thought I should at least check with the hive mind here to see if I’m missing something.
This is weeks 2-4 of my specialty block. First off, I thought FTP adjustments should be minor or non existent in the specialty phase. But more confusing, where is this increase coming from? I’m being served workouts that seems appropriate to my current fitness, and the WL indicates to me that the current AIFTP is around where TRAI wants it. So why am I jumping 7.1% in FTP when WLs are only progressing to mid 4s? What am I missing?
Ironically the biggest WL jump is to the first VO2Max workout after the FTP adjustment. That one is a 5.5 WL workout, which means that the power I’m expecting to hold for 5 minutes increases 40 watts from one workout to the next.
Only thing I can think of is the mixed threshold intervals appear to be more difficult than their AL indicates. Or maybe it’s just me, but they tend to have a higher % of very hard and max compared to other types of threshold at the same level.
Do you have another 4 weeks of specialty after this block?
Ok, something is definitely wrong here. When looking at my workouts on my calendar the predicted difficulty doesn’t show up for any of the workouts. But when I go to Browse Workout and search up my next Threshold workout, Pavillon, it shows as not recommended with a predicted chance of failure at 15.8%. Which of course makes the FTP jump even more strange.
Also, I forgot to mention, my training approach has mysteriously changed from Balanced to Demanding on its own.
Yes, I do have another 4 weeks of specialty, but only the first couple of workouts are within the simulation window so it doesn’t tell me much more than the weird jump in VO2Max WL.
Do I have permission to look into your account and post relevant info?
From the screenshot you posted I see that none of your workouts have the sparkle on them, except the last two. The sparkles normally indicate that the AI is picking them. When there is no sparkle but with the Calendar logo, this indicates that you chose an alternate…Did you edit the plan in any way?
@Caro.Gomez-Villafane The missing sparkle seems to be a bug that appears when I add a race to my calendar. Adding a race switches most of the workouts to too easy workouts (compared to a reasonable progress to reach my predicted AIFTP) and thus the sparkle disappears. It fixes itself at the end of the day when TR runs a end of day refresh, but adding another race gives the same problem again. The predicted difficulty for the workouts on my calendar also disappears with this bug.
The switch from balanced to demanding training approach is not affected so that might be a separate bug.
Hey @Torneng, this sounds like a bug I will bring to the team.
When you add or delete the race, are you doing it straight from the Calendar on web? Or how are you making these changes? This will help reproduce the issue.
Yes, I have been doing it straight from the Calendar on web. The issue can also be triggered just by moving a race to a different day.
To address my original concern. Do you have any idea why I’m seeing such a big jump in predicted FTP during my Specialty phase? I was under the impression that FTP gains in Specialty would (and should) be limited.
As far as the Prediction estimating a big jump, is probably because it’s assuming you will complete all the prescribed workouts left within the block, as opposed to last block where there wasn’t much adherence to the plan.
However, it will be interesting to see what you get on detection day, as I see you’re not really following the plan on the Specialty Phase either. Completing a lot of unstructured big rides does affect the prediction as the whole is being considered towards your FTP, so while you may be in a Specialty Phase, the unstructured riding + the schedule workouts you do will be what determine your detected FTP. Right now, the prediction is the accumulation of the whole: what you’ve done and expected to complete in the next 2 weeks.
All this said, we don’t recommend adjusting your FTP during the Specialty Phase, so you can always skip the detection and accept it after it.
I had fairly good adherence to the plan last block. I only really skipped Saturday’s threshold workout. Which was partly because I wanted to prioritize skiing, but mostly because TR AI at that point had driven me so far into the ground that completing a VO2 max workout and a SS workout that was way into threshold was all I could manage.
This worked fairly well, which was seen in my FTP prediction predicting a small increase. That prediction took a nosedive when I did the last structured ride of the block outside. That was my first time this year trying to do my prescribed workout outside and it was almost as the AI immediately said, “my bad, you’ve obviously been training with a way too high FTP, here take a reduction”. Unfortunately it immediately turned around after my FTP detection and said “psych, now you’re going to do way to hard workouts again and get a 7% increase”
Back to the topic at hand. This is a very chicken and the egg type of situation. Fair enough, I get a big jump based on the workouts that is planned. But that begs the question, why am I given those workouts? Sure, if I do a level 7.3 SS this Saturday and a level 9.5 next Saturday a 7% increase could be reasonable. But I’m not going to do that. Not even close. And as you say, TR really doesn’t advocate for FTP adjustments during Specialty. So again, why am I given those workouts?
And nothing kills the confidence as much as failing a bunch of workouts 5 weeks out from my A event. Ironically, when I search up the SS workout planned for this Saturday with the browse workout feature, it shows up as not recommended. So, at least that part of the TRAI has a better grasp of my limitation.
Ski days + lots of unstructured riding taking over scheduled TR Endurance/Interval Workout
Workouts being manually picked or choosing a Workout Alternate/AI Workouts (this you can see if it’s missing the Calendar or Sparkle or both in the workout card).
All except one interval workout (March 24th) were rated Hard which is what we want to interval workout to feel like 9if rating honestly). Note: The Maximum Effort on the 24th did come after a full weekend of skiing, which of course has a toll on your legs.
Logged in pretty big 4-5 hour rides the first week (April 15th-19th) and then got sick.
Changed your training approach to Demanding and did a race right after getting sick
Overall I see a lot of big rides too even on days the system is telling you to rest
For the first 3 weeks I don’t see any type of plan adherence to the workouts being recommended.
Cowpen on May 2nd was your first TR Interval workout, but that one looks to be manually picked (no Sparkle or Calendar on workout card) and rated Very Hard on a Yellow Day.
Sure, if I do a level 7.3 SS this Saturday and a level 9.5 next Saturday a 7% increase could be reasonable. But I’m not going to do that. Not even close.
The workouts are recommended on your power data, but they also will change daily based on what you are completing. Aka, your SS for this Saturday already being lower.
Here is a great forum post with our power records took that does a great job explaining how to check why a workout is being recommended. In short it tells whether a workout is asking for power you’ve already proven you can do, or whether it’s pushing into new territory.
And nothing kills the confidence as much as failing a bunch of workouts 5 weeks out from my A event
In this part, I think we ought to be a little honest. We can’t have the cake and eat it too. Meaning, if we’re trying to be ready for an Event we have to prioritize, and to be honest I am not seeing that on your Calendar. You’re going skiing, doing long rides, and the fatigue warning are not being exactly followed… so this is leading to the actual recommended workouts from your training plan being compromised or not being able to successfully complete them because we need to have a balance between recovery and training that doesn’t burn your matches.
Ironically, when I search up the SS workout planned for this Saturday with the browse workout feature, it shows up as not recommended. So, at least that part of the TRAI has a better grasp of my limitation.
This part I will have to check on! Can you let me know which workout exactly? or if you’re seeing on others too.
In summary, I think we should bring down your Training Approach to Balanced. Then you have 5 weeks before your Event, so if we focus on following the plan and the fatigue detection warnings, I think we still got time to brings things back and be fresh for your race! Focusing on quality over quantity I think will benefit you lots :).
I had no unstructured rides. The fact that TRs HrTSS estimation overestimates TSS for easy endurance to such an extent that it seems like I have done something else than what was planned is not on me.
Every single manually picked workout is me picking an easier alternative because what was scheduled would not be possible. Which makes it a bit wrong for you to take credit for the workouts being hard. They where hard because I chose workouts more aligned with my actual fitness. The SS workout I failed was also originally scheduled to be harder, and no, XC skiing for someone with ok technique isn’t any more taxing on the legs than a standard endurance ride, if anything it’s less.
Completing a 10 day training camp with only yellow days and no red is a win in my book. On the training approach I will have to refer back to my second post in this thread, this is on TR, I didn’t change anything. Rather, every time I made a change to my calendar the training approach got set to Demanding. That’s why it was “changed” to Demanding on three consecutive days.
Not arguing the fact that I haven’t followed the plan this block. After my training camp that’s when the issues that provoked this thread started. The workouts I’ve been given have been all over the place, ranging from completely wrong when the bug affected my calendar to way too difficult when the AI wanted me to get a 7% FTP increase. Cowpen was the AI suggested shorter alternative for last weeks threshold workout. Legs felt good, but rated it very hard because I couldn’t keep the watts up on the second VO2 interval of each set.
My upcoming SS workout is 5x16 with the toughest interval being only 5 watts lower than what I managed in the key part of my B-race a week ago. I’m pretty sure that shouldn’t count as SS work. And as can be seen from your screenshot that workout is Ferrerira. This is what I see if I search up that workout:
I’m pretty sure I was clear on the fact that I don’t want the cake. At least if that is a 7% increase in FTP. I want to eat the cake I already have. Meaning I want to hone the fitness I already have. I thought that was the reason we do Specialty phases?
Also, it’s over a month since the ski season ended. I don’t think those workouts have a very big impact on my current Specialty phase. And the training I’ve been doing since the start of this block have been what I feel is needed to be ready for my A race.
Today I’m doing a similar VO2 max workout to what is scheduled, but you have to excuse my hesitation to take on Thursdays threshold workout:
