Bicarb and PR Lotion - Still in Vogue?

Training
23

This is an interesting question and discussion.

My curiosity was piqued so like @Weiwentg, I looked into this.

Why sodium bicarbonate lotion?

It is thought that GI distress mitigates some of the performance-enhancing effects of sodium bicarbonate. Momentous have created a lotion as a possible alternative, which in theory, would allow Sodium bicarbonate to hit the bloodstream while bypassing the stomach.

What does the research say?

As @Weiwentg pointed out, in 2020 McKay and colleagues found no effect of PR lotion on blood buffering capacity compared to a placebo group. In contrast, orally consumed sodium bicarbonate did improve blood buffering capacity, which is consistent with the sum of the literature.

Following this study, Gibson and colleagues (2023) looked at the impact of a higher dose of PR lotion on pH. McKay et al. (2020) used a PR Lotion dose of 0.90 g/kg of body weight, whereas Gibson and colleagues used, on average, 1.23 g/kg. In contrast to the prior study by McKay et al. (2020), they found that pH was altered compared to placebo, but crucially, they did not look at whether those changes translated into performance improvements.

Gibson and colleagues observed pH for 120 minutes whereas McKat et al. (2020) only observed pH for 90 minutes. Interestingly, Gibson et al. (2023) observed the highest serum pH at 120 min which might suggest that the timing of the application is important.

HOWEVER, some researchers involved in this study hold equity in the company supplying the PR lotion, have served as a scientific advisors to Momentous and ultimately stand to financially benefit from the success of Momentous’ products.

Finally, I found one other paper that was similarly funded by Momentous.

They looked at the impact of PR lotion on performance in male team sport athletes. The participants were split into three groups:

  1. Sodium bicarbonate oral capsules + placebo lotion
  2. Placebo capsules + Sodium bicarbonate lotion
  3. Placebo capsules + placebo lotion

They found that consuming sodium bicarbonate orally improved repeated sprint performance by about 2% and maximal aerobic endurance capacity by about 21%. Similar improvements in repeated sprint times were observed after applying the lotion (~2%), but no significant benefits were reported for maximal aerobic endurance capacity or blood acid–base balance compared to the placebo. The authors concluded that “PR Lotion might not be an effective delivery system for transporting NaHCO3 (sodium bicarbonate) molecules across the skin and into systematic circulation”.

So what can we take away from this?

As you guys have alreayd said, at the moment, the evidence doesn’t seem to support the use of Sodium Bicarbonate lotion for improving performance.

Does that mean you should throw it away if you have already bought it?
No! I can’t see any down sides to using it. And there’s always a possibility that you respond better than the average person :wink:

24

Yes an no! :smiley: If you want to use sodium bicarb to enhance performance there a wide & deep body of literature tell you
1.) How to do it in terms of dose, timing, methods to avoid GI distress, etc
2.) What kinds of activities sodium bicarb will improve
3.) What sort of performance improvement to expect.

PR lotion uses menthol to make the skin permeable and allow transdermal transport of sodium bicarb. Similar to what most caffeine shampoos do…ever use a caffeine shampoo that doesn’t have menthol in it?

Problem is, the transport isn’t all that effective & (in my opinion) insuffcient to induce an ergogenic benefit.

So if you want to use bicarb, just use bicarb. It’s proven effective. The dose is well understood. Method of consumption is well understood. It’s super cheap.

26

And we’re back to Def Leppard again😆

27

I think the paper reported about 40g a dose on average. I should point out that a standard Amp Human bottle is reported as 300g, and it says 10-15 uses. So the company’s intended average dose is 20-30g.

28

Great point @Weiwentg! This is definitely worth noting for anyone who does find themself with the gel already. Make sure you use a large enough dose to at least give yourself a chance of reaping ergogenic effects :+1:.

29

It does follow that if we can’t poison ourselves with topical amounts of antiperspirant or non-mineral sun screen that a topical bicarb wouldn’t make it through to the blood stream in any meaningful amount. That being said I do wonder about fascial interactions and bicarb lotion. It could be that maybe instead of actually lowering the amount of free hydrogen created during exercise it just creates somewhat of a numbing sensation thanks to the menthol. Sort of the opposite of undrbutr’s light it up. Though I do wonder where the sensation of fatigue or soreness actually comes from and if it’s not from deep within the working muscles and more from the fascia that such a bicarb cream could help with whatever “acidity” is created at that level. For those who say that because a white paper says this stuff doesn’t work probably shouldn’t go looking for anything about sports massage not actually lowering lactate levels any more than just putting your legs up lest you not believe your foam rolling and normatec boots actually do anything for recovery other than make you feel good. And to that effect we come full circle back to what Amp is probably most useful for. Making you feel good, or at least better, or maybe just different. Considering the high mental component to performance I’m never one to discount anyone’s methods for a mental boost no matter how “ineffective” it’s supposed to be.

For myself I do have a bottle I bought long ago with a strava coupon that’s just below half full maybe and getting to the point where I have to wonder if it “expires” or gets weird/separates. I never really liked the sensation it provided because it just made my legs feels strange and highlighted any working areas I didn’t apply it to like my glute meds. Plus it makes putting on bib shorts extra difficult as it’s rather tacky. The one place I do find it somewhat useful is for recovery as when applied after a workout/ride my legs “feel” better sooner. If it weren’t for the smell of it that I can barely tolerate I’d probably use it more often. I emailed them a while back asking if they’d make a “recovery” version of the lotion that smelled nicer but clearly that’s not on the roadmap as they haven’t.

31

Just pointing out also that the CL- part of salt is what can give you the emergency blows when taken in large quantities. The sodium citrate greatly reduces the risk of those stomach issues that can lead to a Tom Doumalin episode.

32

I always that it was 1) an osmolarity thing: e.g. 3 Na + Citrate vs. 1 Na + 1 Cl, so you get more Na more molecular with sodium citrate and 2) a taste thing (less salty).

It’s been a while since my Acid/Base chemistry and buffering agent days so can’t say there isn’t an element (hahahah) of a acid/conjugate-base buffering system going on.

33

I would not use it here or there
I would not use it anywhere

–Dr Seuss, probably

34

Anyone still doing bicarb?

Carbs Fuel just dropped a bicarb produt in pill form:

35

Oral bicarb is effective if you can stomach it. Quite a few options now.

Lotion, like Amp Human or Lactigo, tend to be influencer hype products with little scientific data but strong placebo effects…

36

Anyone stop doing bicarb? It’s incredibly effective.

37

Never stopped taking it, I take 25-30g with 100g raspberry jam around 1.5h before every key workout at threshold or higher intensity. No stomach issues whatsoever and the taste isn’t even as repulsive as it used to be. And it’s crazy cheap, if it cost dozens of euros like the Maurtens I would maybe reconsider, but the homemade mix costs under half a euro with most of that coming from the jam.

38

I’ll raise my hand here. Just for the reason that the Carbs Fuel product warns about.

Although if I had a big time trial I’d probably still use it. :smiley: But sodium bicarb used to be part of any VO2max workout. I don’t do that anymore.

39

I would like to give it a try for XCO/CX races but the thought of swallowing 20+ capsules the morning of a race is quite off-putting to me.

40

What’s your FTP if I may ask? My hypothesis is that bicarb may be a good option to squeeze out the last bit before your genetic potential. Or you simply do it do optimize wherever you stand, but I’m not sure I’d do it given the extra lead time before a workout and the nastiness of Bicarb. I’ve used Flycarb twice so far, no bowel issues btw.

41

Same! @XCO_mtb maybe it makes sense for you just to try a ‘phase I’ bicarb trial…just buy some pure food grade bicarb, measure out the appropriate dose for your bodyweight, mix it in some water, take it in 3 equal slugs 90min, 60min, 30min before a workout on the trainer. That way the bathroom is always handy.

Most athletes would probably find no great issue. You might be one of those & the capsules aren’t necessary.

42

Here is a low cost encapsulated sodium bicarb that Drew Dillman turned me on to. Nutricost sodium bicarb in 2500mg capsules. Not enteric capsules but also only 10 bucks for, what?, maybe 10 doses? So, still affordable but maybe a better option for athletes that gag when they taste concentrated sodium bicarb.

43

It’s around 380W, haven’t tested it in ages but I did 20+25min at 380W on my TT bike a while back and other performances track similarly (e.g. 5min max at 485W).
I always train in the morning and the 1.5h wait fits really well with my life situation – I wake up at 5.15, take my 4-month old baby to sleep in my baby carrier to let my wife rest alone for 2h, then I eat breakfast + bicarb at around 6.15-6.30, take my older toddler to daycare at around 7.30, and then do my workout.

44

I’ve done everything mentioned here as well as Nomio and Beetroot Juice + NOX capsules. I stand by Nomio - easily noticeable after testing in both workouts and real world 20’ ftp test and my most recent cx race.

I’ve tried PR lotion at a MTB Marathon event - after finishing I looked like I had raced through the deepest sandiest dessert for 24 hours…I’ll finish the bottle someday simply for the ritual of getting super dirty.

Flycarb absolutely worked for me too - but still a bit expensive and almost all of my events are 3-1/2 hours long. I also ordered the capsule that you mentioned @brennus. I’ll see how those work and will use them for my workouts that are Z4/5. It’s cheap enough.

Amacx beetroot juice plus super NOX pill were not noticeable so I won’t bother with that anymore.

I’ve also tried sportlegs and I want to believe - but can’t tell so I won’t continue.

Optygen HP was also a big nothing burger - two months and I don’t feel like I got anything out of it except perhaps $60+ poorer, but I had to give it chance.