Old post, but the basics have not changed.
Yes, thanks for your comments. I agree with this. The bike was bought in 2023 so i have chipped away at the gains as ive needed an upgrade. Training and diet first(TR), tires, fit, position etc and I will add these other more expensive items 1 at a time.
I expect my TR gains to slow this year but i could never justify spending ÂŁ1000+ for wheels giving me the equivalent watts of 3 or 4 months of TR. I think when those improvements dry up i will be more tempted to open my tiny wallet.
Some upgrades Iâd also do when suitable maintenance windows happen.
For example youâre redoing cabling and bar tape, nowâs the time for narrow bars. Tyres have reached the end of their life, swap them now. If youâve got only a couple of thousand km in the tyres donât throw money away.
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I think this is an important point that is being forgotten. If heâs 6 rows back in a double pace line, Iâm not sure how much value an aero helmet or a skin suit is adding. I think focusing on knowing where to be in the pack at the right times, fueling, weight-loss if youâre climbing/strength if itâs flat, etc. are going to be a lot more helpful for his particular goal of staying with the group.
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True, but these are also not mutually exclusive. He can do both at the same time. Learning better positioning, etc. costs nothing (and is also a longer-term approach). An aero helmet or jersey will have an immediate impact and is a good $/speed investment.
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I donât agree. A big guy struggling to hold on to the back of a group is going to spend a lot of money for almost no benefit from a jersey and a helmet upgrade.
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He said he has the PR2 wheels, not the Cadex wheels. The PR2âs come on the non-SL model, which is significantly slower @ 240 watts.
I think Iâm going to kick the hornets nest here but in the scenario you portray equipment is not the answer. Firstly, 30 watts improvement is not coming from any single upgrade. Even combined, 30 watts is a big chunk. Second, try to be patient and continue riding with your group. One of the best ways to get better/faster is riding with faster people. Getting dropped sucks but it is not a permanent situation. Drop some weight, eat well and get plenty of sleep. If there are any training races in your area do that too. Learning from others is great and you might meet people to train with. Not at all telling you not to go with upgrades but other than a few of the easy things mentioned like snug clothing and refining position, fitness is much more consequential to you going faster and being able to sustain it.
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I get it, but the benefit of the upgrades are still there, they are just minimized. But he can work on his positioning and efficiency at the same time.
And the helmet / jersey / whatever upgrade will be a benefit to him when he takes a pull or when he is out riding solo.
Win win!!
Plus, we all like to drop a little coin on some new schwaggâŚgood for the soul. 
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This part I wonât argue with!
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That why I said âfrom a frameâ with a big ?.
On like for like wheels (Zipp 404 Firecrest), It only gets closer between the 2 frames: 212w vs 223w
From the post I replied to, he could have point out the PR2 wheels are pretty slow.
But he referred to frame models, not the wheels.
The similar spec Propel could come on P-A2 wheels. Which might also be slow. We donât know without testing.
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Also the importance of knowing when the body positioning is important. For many racers, riding in the aero hoods position is a bit more fatiguing than the standard position riding on the hoods. When catching back up, taking pulls, riding solo, or going into the wind, being more aero makes a much larger difference.
My point was the specific bike he references is the worst on test, 40+ watts slower than the best (The latest Storck tested 198 watts) and 35+ watts slower than most of the top aero bikes. Sometimes you can buy speed, and this case itâs possible to buy quite a bit in this situation.
All great points lads and although you are starting to battle it out here you are all on a similar page.
From these forums I know what i can control. Positioning in the group, position on the bike, bike fit, diet training etc. I actually think i have those pretty dialled in now(compared to my cycle buddies) and I will make quicker gains than most as i can lose a bit of weight and i am getting consistent gains using TR.
So now I am lucky enough to treat myself to the odd splurge and the question is what should that beâŚwith great advise above. Ill buy what i can afford, helmet, jersey, bars etc and upgrade the bits as I need them. Saving the big items (wheels etc) till im a bit stronger and racing more/competitively.
As far as holding onto the group Iâll get there, point taken though, just getting out is my best bet, but no harm in rocking up with a few free watts too. Although i might save the skin suit till I get under 85kgs!! RULE 28 literally dont make one big enough for my chest so Iâll take that as a sign.
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Let me add something here: maybe it makes sense to add upgrades thatâll make it more likely for you to keep riding to the list. Not because these upgrades will necessarily change anything, but if they keep you consistent, then youâll be faster.
The biggest get IMHO is good cycling clothing. Good cycling clothing can be expensive, but often is, in my experience at least, worth it. E. g. do you have clothes that keep you warm or cool? How many pairs of gloves do you have? Do you have the ones that are just right for you given the weather? There are also cheaper âupgradesâ like e. g. arm and leg warmers, a skullcap or a buff.
And regarding upgrades like narrower handlebars: yes, the aero advantage is real, but perhaps you donât like or cannot ride such narrow handlebars. Just make sure to keep that on your radar when you make changes.
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Space them out a bit. If you go out and buy the best of everything right at the beginning, youâll have nothing left to buy to excite you anymore and you might quit riding.
JK, thereâs ALWAYS something else to upgrade
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Also the smile factor is worth it. Honestly, I donât care if a helmet saves 3w, I doubt it would make a noticeable difference in most cases, however, if I think I look good then Iâll feel better. Since my bike isnât paying my mortgage then feeling good is a real benefit.
Thatâs the thought process going on to justify some carbon gravel wheels!
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True, but if you search for closeouts / arenât too concerned about colors and patterns, there are always good deals to be had. Backcountry always has stuff ~50% off from brands like Castelli and others.
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Thatâs how I live.
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Yup, thatâs a great way to get good deals, especially for indoor cycling where looks arenât as, hmmm, important.
When I lived in Japan, I was on a cycling forum and one of the members is in the cycling industry (one of the distributors) and regularly sold off old stock for ridiculous prices. I once got top-shelf Castelli and Sportful bib shorts for $30â40 each.
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