The discussion about whether to go for a faster bike leg or a faster run leg would seem to tell me that one should figure out over time what pace on the bike will get each particular racer the best results. So if I take a minute off my bike time, and that adds MORE than a minute on my run, my bike leg is too fast. If I take a minute off my bike time and it adds LESS than a minute to my run, I can try a little faster still on the bike.
Is that the right lesson for me to learn here? Or is that too simplistic and I’m missing something?
Well, that part isn’t quite right…you aren’t looking to balance time gains / loss…you are trying to find the right balance to get you to the finish line in the fastest time overall. How it is broken up really doesn’t matter.
If you take a minute off your bike, but give back 30 sec on the run, you are still 30 sec faster overall, which is the end game. That doesn’t mean you should try and up your bike even more.
Right. But then I can try to take another minute off my bike… if I give back 45 seconds on the run, I’m still faster. So as long as I’m gaining more than I’m losing, I keep pushing. Once going faster on the bike costs me more time on the run than what I gained on the bike, I’ve hit the right balance for best time overall (given my current condition/abilities/etc).
Seems like what you’re telling me confirms what I was saying, though perhaps I didn’t explain it well enough. Or am I confused somewhere?
The main issue is finding the right balance.
I did a race in August last year. Bike was 90s faster than they year before, but the run was about 2 minutes slower (I think is was hotter last year). So overall the race was slower. In this case it was not the right balance.
Hi everyone, just want to ask your opinion on a few things, hope you don’t mind. Maybe I should ask in the Ironman thread, but I don’t want to fill that with beginner olympic triathlon questions.
So, just an update: I’ve been doing the Olympic Triathlon Mid Volume, without the swimming for now, and keeping the runs at Z2. It’s been great. I also just signed up for swimming lessons, and was told the pools should open in early September, so that’s awesome.
Now the questions:
Plan builder created a sequence of blocks for me, but I’m not sure they are the best option. It suggested Base-Build-Specialty-Build-Specialty. But I don’t understand, given I still have 30 weeks until my event, why it gives me 2 builds and 2 specialties. I would think it would suggest a lot more base. I’m now in the first block (Base) and thinking if I should repeat that, or maybe go to build, and then base again. What do you think?
I’ve been doing all my runs in Z2 for the last 4 months, and having great success. No injuries, and my times have been decreasing for the same effort. Also, my garmin VO2 max has increased from 45 to 54, doing just that and the bike workouts. However, now the plans start to include more speed work and intervals. I’m on the fence, because I feel I’m still progressing with this approach, and adding speed work now would increase the risk of injury. Do you think it’s appropriate to keep doing the runs in Z2 and leave the intensity to the bike workouts, at least until I stop progressing, or until I get closer to the event?
Trust the plan. Chad is way smarter and better at this than most of us.
You didn’t say how old you were, but the older you are, the more cautious you should be at adding in speed work. Either way, 4 months is really not that much time in running terms, so don’t be afraid to keep building that base with Z2 work. In order to run fast, you need to run a lot…and in order to run a lot, you need to run slow. If you want to add in some speed work, add it very slowly…a few Z3 efforts added to one day’s workout. Then start to make them longer…then up the intensity a bit maybe. Slow, steady progression.
And don’t be afraid to add some strides to either the beginning or end of your runs…great way to work on form with a bit of speed and not overtax the body.
Another option is to run hills…hills are just soeedwork in disguise as my running buddy tells me (who can scorch a 3:05 run in an IM).
So. Yes. Hills are great! BUT Really watch out. If you are not used to run fast up/down hill. you can get hurt SUPER easy. Even if you are used to it.
I have lived and train in flat Florida for 4 years now. I rarely hit hill. Maybe a cussway or an over pass. But nothing major or long.
2 xmas ago i went to PR, and trained in hilly terrain, again nothing too bad, but never flat, just rolling all the time.
Coach told me to find a hill where i could do repeats. I found one that looked nice. it was MEGA steep. So i hit that shit. HUGE mistake. I ended up hurting my achilles. It was super painful. It took few weeks to recover from it.
Long way to say… run hills, but let your body to get use to it.
yeah, good point Joel…I was pretty much talking about still running the hills at a Z2 pace, which helps build strength but minimizes the stress on the body…and walking down to recover is never a bad idea when you first start on hills.
And as Joel noted, nothing too steep…steep is really bad for your Achilles until you build up some strength.
I remember training for a Lakeland Ultra Race, and my coach had me doing Down-Hill hill reps. (off road)
They killed for quite a few sessions until I got use to them
I absolutely trust the plans, it’s just the order that the Plan Builder put those blocks in that I’m questioning. I don’t even know if Chad as any input in that.
So you think I should keep doing the blocks in that order?
As to the hill runs, I already do a big chunk of my “long” run going up and down a hill (about 4km up, 4km down), all Z2. I’ve done it for years, so no problems there.
I set up my plan back in march?
I had a base, then a long build (8 weeks), then 1 base week and back to build before starting the speciallity.
A lot of it has to do with your initial input. I said i was used to structured training (I have been doing structured stuff for at least 8 years running and 2+ years on the bike).
That sequence will get you to a semi-peak, allow you to plateau a bit and then hit your next peak in time for your event.
Makes complete sense to me…there are lots of ways to skin the cat. Another, as you note, would be to spend more time in base and then build to the event just once. In theory, Plan Builder can get you to a higher level. Unfortunately, there is no way to know which is “best” or “right”.
I think that’s it, I put little experience in interval training, maybe the “newbie gains” increase my potencial to gain in build and specialty.
The thing is, I always heard you should first build a strong base, and then closer to the event progress to build and specialty, that’s why I find it a little strange, but I guess what you’re saying makes sense too.
Yeah, go look at the thread about Nate’s FTP and the discussion about “brittle fitness”. Similar topic / discussion.
IMO, Plan Builder does a good job of getting you to peak for a specific event. Is that the best route for you long term (IOW, are you build “brittle” or “surface” fitness)? Possibly…but for an A race, that is not a bad thing.
And all training helps build your base, just in different ways.
It will be my first triathlon, and this is my fist time training on the bike, so the goal would be to build as much base as possible to then progress to other events in the future (HIM, IM, etc).
But I understand that this too can be considered base, and that after the event I can then consolidate the fitness I gained to start preparing my next race.
In that case, doing additional base periods would not be a bad choice (especially for the run). So rather than do Plan Builder, just pick the base plan you want to do for now and do Plan Builder as you get closer to the race.
Olympic is short enough that you can recover from quickly, so you can do preparatory races before your A race. I would schedule another Olympic at the end of your first Speciality, and/or perhaps a couple of sprints in the Build phases.
4 months of Z2 running should mean that introducing speed is not a risky decision, but only you know your body. Personally I limit my speed work to at or just under 5k pace. RPE 9/10 intervals just injured me.
I would love to do that, but I’m having trouble finding local events in my country that are open to the public (most are being heavily restricted to just a few club/federation athletes).
I’ve been playing around with Plan Builder, and I think I’ll progress to Build after I finish Base. Then I’ll create a new plan on Plan Builder, which will probably be just Base-Build-Specialty.
I’ll keep doing only Z2 runs until the last Build and Specialty blocks before the event, then I’ll consider adding some tempo and interval runs.
Yeah particularly a problem at the moment but difficult here in the UK in a normal year. Ive been doing virtial duathlons with IronmanVirtualClub which are surprisingly race-like. They do Olympic and Sprint distances too.
