AT puts Keith as the first threshold workout in a new block. Really?

Its best IMO not to overthink a motivational message anyway and for the OP to trust in the system and smash it :muscle:

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Taking all bets:
@LarrytheStanimal vs Keith

Place your wagers now. I’ll hold the money.

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Keith does not look fun :joy:

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I had a reply from support recently that essentially confirmed this.

I had queried why a Very Hard response had not triggered an adaption. Support got the developers to check the AT logic and the reply was AT “expected” a response of Hard or Very Hard for that difficult workout, so no change needed

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Do you know the Difficulty rating that was assigned?

  • I’d guess Productive at the higher end of the range (over 0.5 PL increase) or even a Stretch, but would love to know what it was in your case.

Wait…if you do the workout alternates thing, will that actually work with the training plan megamind AI thing?

Adaptive Training is like a Golem made of Silicon. It is irrepressible. I skipped workouts for, like, two months and AT just kept adapting things. When I got back on the plan, AT was like, ‘OK. No problem. Here we go.’

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Oh that I get. What I dont really grasp is what workouts NOT in a plan, that are completed, get taken into account. It seems like sometimes it recognizes them, other times it doesnt. I think it’s quite confusing for both me and the computer if I go off the plan with rides. This thing should have an instruction manual honestly…

If you explain specifically what you are changing and/or adding, we can help explain some expected results. Short of that, here are some basics:

  • Adding any random workout or group ride from outside of TR will not be considered by Adaptive training.

  • Adding outside workouts linked to a planned TR outside workouts on your calendar will apply the relevant Progression Level info to your AT profile. If your completed workout exceeds your current PL, TR will increase to match the completed workout.

  • Adding a random TR workout inside (manually or via TrainNow) will impact your PL if the completed workout exceeds your current PL.

  • All of the above will impact AI FTP Detection.

How’s that for a start?

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The problem - I think - a lot of people make is trying to understand exactly how and what AI is doing or might do, when the whole point is not to.

How to use a training plan, sure - there are guides on that.

Otherwise, fire and forget.

Focus time and effort on logistics, sleep and nutrition - simply execute the planned workouts.

Not criticising anyone here, just how I get the most from TR.

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I really like the workouts that are assigned a proper name. It sounds like you’re complaining about a coworker. “F***ing Keith”

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That’s a decent start haha. Ok, so it seems essentially then that all named trainerroad workouts are accounted for then, regardless if they’re part of a plan or not, if I’m reading this correctly.

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Dog has been walked and research done!

I had just started week 1 of SSBLV2 after a 6w AiFTP increase after LV1. I am trying to get all 3 workouts completed during the weekdays so i can do a group ride on Saturdays and longer Endurance on Sunday. So i am not well rested for them.

I did Truchas +2 (SS 6.6) with a Productive 0.4 rating on Wednesday and found it hard, but i got through it and marked it as Hard.

On Friday i did Emerson (Threshold 5.1) with a Productive 0.7 rating. I had to drop part of the last set by 2% to get through. It was very hard and marked as such.

I got no adaptations to easier workouts which surprised me, so i dropped a line to support to check all was working as it should be.

My view at the time was the SS and Threshold workouts were feeling too similar and both were like Threshold based on HR and how i was feeling i.e. my FTP bump wasn’t correct and i was looking for some relief. All my 1 hour SS workouts are at 94% in the plan. which means i am in full Threshold if my FTP is overstated, tring to do 2x23 with no real break. Too hard for someone who turns 60 this year!!

I have now put my ego is check and i am looking at extended timeframes for SS at the same PL but lower intensity, and taking the worst Threshold workouts outside to my local hill where i get through them better, but with good compliance with the workout.

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Thanks for the details. Sounds like you had at least two issues with closely spaced workouts (insufficient recovery), potentially incorrect FTP (too high) making matters difficult. Seems like good recognition and adjustment too, in order to get on target again. Well done. :smiley:

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I am going to attempt Keith on Friday or Saturday and shall report back.

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image

As promised, looks like Keith won. It also looks like intuition wins over AI…and I gave AI plenty of warnings that Keith might be a bit too much. This included rating the most recent Threshold workout (pre FTP increase) as “Very Hard” as well as the preceding Sweet Spot workout also as “Very Hard”.

But now that Keith and I are acquainted…there is a target on Keith’s back.

I also think that getting further into VO2max progression levels with make Keith easier.

All this said, Keith strikes me as a high-quality workout: a good one to be able to crush. Watch this space…

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Interesting. Given that you did 2, and then did a 3rd after extended rest, wondering if you could complete all sets if you just had extra rest between. If you tried again, I would give yourself extra rest between sets and I bet you will do much better. Either that or try turning down the watts just a bit and see how much further you can get.

I couldn’t even hold base power in the third interval…if I tried the overs the workout would have been done right there. The final interval felt good, but I did take a long break.

I think AI should select workouts to limit such PL gaps between Threshold and VO2max. I can see some experience at new FTP with high-intensity intervals would have been helpful.

It’s funny cause I’ve done “Keith” twice during the last 45 days. Only reflected over the “as tough as it gets” workout text second time but both times the first 5 min were manageable and the last 5 was challenging.

Now, since the average power for each 10 min set will be close to FTP, and the lowest level of effort is 95%’ a slight overestimate of FTP might be a reason for finding the workout really hard. I also found that ERG-mode was harder than resistance mode, especially in the latter half.

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Well done for trying. I suspect if you didn’t have that "intuition " you would have won :+1:

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