AT puts Keith as the first threshold workout in a new block. Really?

Hi All…so I just finished a training block and got an FTP increase based on automatic FTP detection. My first week in the next block includes a 1.5 hr threshold workout “Keith”. Coach Chad’s notes for Keith say: “If this one doesn’t crush you then you’re a machine…or you need to reassess your FTP”. I assume my FTP was correctly assessed. Why does AT think it is a good idea to crush me at the beginning of a training block? Any ideas? Thanks!

The workout level of a ride is a much better indicator of difficulty than the summary text.


If you haven’t started the block yet, it won’t adapt your workouts. Perhaps tomorrow it’ll change?


As mentioned above, one of the things I don’t like about AT is that on Sunday it will tell me what my Tuesday ride is (the first ride of the new block), but on Tuesday, it will be a different ride.

Maybe that’s the answer I was looking for. Keith will kill me.

I agree. It seems the AT look-forward isn’t far enough. If I knew for sure I had Keith to deal with, I’d organize my entire week around preparing for that workout.


@LarrytheStanimal Keith is a threshold level 6.4 … what’s your threshold PL going into this block?

I’ve had the same experience with the start of a new block. Instead of easing my way back into training, AT throws me into the fire. I know I could do the workouts but mentally don’t feel like starting on block on the edge what I can do.
An example with a new ftp my first workout was a 2x10 @ 105% . Any odd things like this I change to something very achievable to get back in the groove after a rest week. Consistency > anything, so they say.


Seems my Threshold PL is 6.0.

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Well then I’m sure you’ll crush it!!


Hey there!

As others have mentioned, AT won’t change your workouts until you begin your current block. That said, now that you have started your new block, Keith seems to be an appropriate fit all the same.

The workout text is a bit intimidating – I’ll see if we can change that around as it’s likely old and doesn’t necessarily “fit in” with how Adaptive Training works these days. Since your Threshold PL is 6.0 and Keith is a 6.4, it should be a challenging but Productive workout for you!

Fuel up well this week and smash it! :muscle:


It would seem like a good idea imo to test your new threshold to confirm if its really valid. If youre concerned about the exact power ride it by rpe in resistance mode and use it to assess how well the detection is.

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Based on observation alone, it seems like TR like to give you a challenging workout during that first week just to ‘set the level’. That’s the water mark to adapt the rest of your training for the block. I suspect the motivation behind this is a cadre of physiologic ‘fliers’ who have FTP grossly UNDER predicted by the TR AI model…so they’ll crush the workout and respond ‘Hard’ or ‘Moderate’ to the survey.

Unfortunately, everybody else well not crush the workout but instead GET CRUSHED by the workout…either way AI will adapt the rest of the block.

But, @LarrytheStanimal, here’s the bottom line: your hand is on the tiller. This isn’t an Asch or Milgram conformity experiment. If you know the workout is too much…find your way to the Alternates button (my favorite TR feature) and select a more appropriate workout. Just clicking that button now…here are some suggestions:

Mesachie +4
Carpale Vetta

Pick another workout, do it, answer the post-workout survey honestly. Here is a little secret…Adaptive Training will never, ever stop trying to adapt your plan. It never gets tired or gives up no matter how far you stray from the plan. It’s not like HAL…it’s not gonna lock you out…so use it and abuse it.


same issue here. After assessing FTP it gave me Stretch levels of Anaerobic workouts. Then it corrected itself but now giving me a mix of achievable, productive and Stretch workouts. I wonder if there was a change in the Algorithm

Ok, so I did the first workout of the block today and Keith still features there at the end of my week. What’s interesting is when my FTP was 3% lower at the end of last block, I rated my last threshold workout “very hard”…it was a 6.0 PL workout. Now my FTP is 3% higher and I got Keith looking at me (a 6.4 PL threshold workout) in the beginning of this next block. I don’t get it, but I’ll give Keith a try… Keith looks mean. Maybe AI knows something about my abilities that I don’t…


A threshold workout should be very hard so you ranked it as AI would have expected; you’ll smash Keith :muscle:

  • This needs some context. Cosidering the 1-10 range that any workout can have within a given zone, and the rider’s current Progression Level (and/or actual ability that may differ from PL in some cases), the expected survey rating will not always be “Very Hard” for Threshold workouts.

  • Many could well be “Easy” or “Moderate” if a person has a 5.0 PL and does a workout at or close to that level.

  • Therefore, including the Difficulty Level in discussion is necessary when considering potential “expected ratings”. Even with that, I caution people from having too much expectation because our performance on any day varies. Some workouts roll easier than expected while others hand our tail despite thinking they’d be manageable.


The ONLY time a threshold workout is easy/moderate is when its sweetspot or tempo :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


I honestly don’t think Keith looks nearly as bad as you’re making it sound. It’s 10 minute intervals with 5 minute recoveries. I think you’ve made it harder in your mind that it probably is. Having said that, if I were you, I would not do it. I’d insert an alternate. This is just me, but when I build something up in my head to be that difficult, especially in public, it usually is, and I end up failing, event though I’m sure it’s 75% mental. That sets me back further than if I’d just skipped it. That’s just me. You do you, and some people love that kind of challenge. If you do it, go in with a super positive attitude and crush it! :fire:


Yip I should have gave it some context like at that PL (6) ,whereas a Threshold workout at say PL 1-2 could be could be considered easy-moderate by some. I could be wrong but I think there’s also some context in an athletes previous responses (at extremes if they’d been rating everything as easy up to now then rated this one as very hard it may have triggered downards adaptions). But I don’t think rating something as very hard in response to something that the system will think is very hard will trigger downwards adaptions.