I think that the workout levels do a decent job of putting all the complex workouts in the library into a logical order of progression.
Seems like what you want is a “simple mode” where the workouts progress just by time in zone or intensity?
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Isn’t that a data point in its favor? The other two needed a max effort to show the change. TR saw it beforehand. The whole idea of the AI FTP this version and last is that it doesn’t need max efforts to predict FTP.
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Indeed. Unless I’ve missed some crucial detail here, I don’t understand how someone could be complaining about this? If the system was able to predict this ability in advance of seeing a full-gas effort - if that’s what happened here - then that’s fantastic! 
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This is great feedback – thanks for sharing! I’ll pass this along to the team. 
I get what you’re saying here. What we have in place now isn’t really driven by Workout Levels like it used to be, but rather what workout is right for you based on the wattage you’ve done in recent training and your plan discipline.
With that being said, we do still use Workout Levels to some extent, but not in the same ways as before, which made progression dependent on them.
I do think it would be cool to have more specific workouts rather than simply using what we have, and maybe that’s something to look toward next, but there’s no way we could have fit that into this release. 
Maybe that’s the next step! Who knows? I have brought this up myself in the past, and it’s been mentioned here, or in another post recently – how cool would it be if we generated the right workout for you based on your fitness and goals rather than picking from the library?
In that world, maybe you could specify generally what you’re looking for, and each athlete would be perfectly happy with TR. 
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Technically it wasn’t full gas. I was first place with a huge lead so my pacing stayed in a spot to stay steady rather than push. I hadn’t set a 1 hour or 90 minute PR in years. At 302w FTP I shouldn’t be able to hold 289 for another 30 minutes after the 1 hour mark, so it obviously is underestimated. FTP is supposed to be a hard stopping point after 1 hour.
So the FTP estimate was accurate before you did the effort? It raised you up to 302 based on what it saw before that work. The others responded after they saw it. It’s a win for the model.
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Unsure what is meant by copium.
Maybe I misunderstood your issue. I thought your complaint was the model raised up your FTP too high? But then you did a race and the other models caught up to it.
Nope.
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I think some wires are getting crossed here. I’m not training to maximize or validate 60-90 minute steady-state power, and the Ven-Top race wasn’t a target effort, it was just a data point that exposed a mismatch.
I race 40-50 crits a year (CRCA), and historically there’s been a deliberate 30-40 W gap between my TR FTP and my “physiological” FTP because that higher number produced the right anaerobic and repeatability stimulus for racing. FTP for me has always been a training control variable, not a literal 1-hour boundary.
With AI FTP 2.0, FTP seems to be redefined as a normalized, population-comparable metric. That may be objectively cleaner, but it breaks how I’ve successfully used TR in the past. The issue isn’t whether the model can predict an FTP-like number - it’s whether that number still drives the right training stress for crit racing. For me, right now, it doesn’t.
FWIW, I did dual record and both my wahoo kickr v6 and favero assioma duo shi pedals came to very close watts: ZwiftPower - Login
This is the thread I was looking for!!
My FTP went from up about 12% with the change to AI. I have manually changed it back to my original as the sweetspot workouts where now threshold etc. also I discovered my Wattbike had been over reading due to a fault.
Here’s my question, after a block at the manually inputted FTP will the system give me a new updated AIFTP which might be closer to my manually inputted if I RPE the workouts as Hard?
I also fall into this group of people. Just started on TrainerRoad in November and was progressing super nicely, utilizing the old AI FTP detection system and then also verifying with a ramp test mid-week during my down weeks. Was loving the workouts and progressing through the workout levels, always hovering in the 6-8 range before FTP went up and levels went down again and the cycle reset.
The new rollout increased my FTP up +22W just 6 days after the last detection at 269 and 18 days after my ramp test at 260. I gave it a try, but have failed 3 straight workouts, all of which had really low levels (3.7, 3.9, 5.6). Similar to what others have said threshold felt like VO2 and VO2 felt like anaerobic work. My lifetime PB 10 minute power is 284, just 2 watts higher than the AI FTP setting. How would it be possible for me to complete a simple threshold workout like a 3x10 at my 10 minute power PB? Even with 1:1 recovery that’s a stretch for any rider. I also pretty much gave up any endurance workout that has 75% blocks because it feels way to hard for an endurance day.
I wish there was a way to go back to the old AI FTP system that doesn’t normalize the PLs around the 3-4 range and just uses the old detection system that aligned with results from traditional FTP testing. As a result I have decided to disable AI FTP and just use all ramp tests to set and update my FTP.
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As long as you have relatively high (>4) ALs in sweet spot and threshold, expect a significant bump in AIFTP.
It looks like you did pretty well with your estimated FTP of 282 this past weekend. You knocked out a level 3.9 Threshold workout, which is great! That’s coming off a training camp the weekend before, too!
I noticed that you’re currently in a “14 day heat block.” You’re not doing your workouts as active heat sessions, are you?
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So do I, especially as the AI model is said to be independent of the FTP number apart from using it to determine the workout pool it is selecting from. For now, you can delete the AIFTP number and input a manual FTP (which you did, I guess)
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Based on your recent training, I’d say that your FTP is definitely higher than you have it set right now.
I’m curious about the Wattbike situation, though. How much of your training history has skewed power data? 
Hi Eddie,
Thanks for your quick reply! I reckon the Wattbike may have been over reading up to 40watts, but I’m not sure for how long, I think it was a gradual increase over time. I only really noticed over the past few weeks as the workouts were getting harder but my HR was not where it should be. Is there away essentially to start again or root out the bad data?
Again, tr does not assign workouts solely off of your ftp. What type of anaerobic workouts are you getting assigned now with the new aiFTP that are (presumably) too easy?
I would hope the system adjusts those based on your feedback, is that not happening?
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Hey Eddie,
Appreciate you checking out my calendar. For this past weekend I had to stand during the last minute of a couple of the intervals to get through the 5x9’ threshold session so I was counting that as a fail.
No, the heat block is not active it is passive with a sauna following easy sessions.
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I don’t think so. My understanding is that it’s still going to set your new FTP to be normalized around a level 3 threshold workout. And that works if you like those workouts. Some of us prefer a higher level workout at a lower FTP number, often translating to longer intervals and more time in zone (but at lower wattages). With either FTP, you get a similarly hard workout, just delivered in slightly different ways (which will have a slightly different “flavor” of training stress). I see the FTP setting as bit of a slider for how you want the balance between intensity and duration. That may not be an accurate way of thinking about it for all workouts, but I’m in the middle of base phase and that’s how it appears to manifest for the sweet spot and over/under workouts I’ve been doing.
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@eddie , I would appreciate your feedback here before things heat up with a threshold workout over the weekend 
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I just completed my second SS workout in the plan, Monitor +1. This one was pretty tough with only one minute of rest and the majority of the power in what I think is my real threshold zone (right about 240W). By the last interval of the workout, my heart rate was quite peaked at 177bpm (I go into a dark place when I get around 178+). Definitely felt it in my legs. So, based on my body’s response this felt a lot like threshold.
I probably could squeak out a few more minutes if I did another interval, but it would be difficult. Rated it hard.
Next up I have Fang Mountain -2, with the unders hanging out around the same zone as this SS workout.
In your experience, is this the right track for my sweet spot workouts? My heart rate will definitely be in vo2 max territory on Saturday, and I’m worried I’m training the wrong things at this point in time.
I expect I can survive it, but is this the most optimal? Sorry if it’s a loaded question- but if I’m set to increase my FTP in a few weeks based on the prediction, I’ll be in a world of hurt before long. I just want to have sustainable long-term success.
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