I don’t race. But I think I train harder that many people who do. Its not suffering to me though. I enjoy cycling and dealing with intense feelings is part of doing hard and getting stronger. That last minute of a vo2max interval isn’t suffering to me, its what going fast feels like. Its what smashing a hill feels like. Its what dropping friends feels like.
Suffering is when I had GI issues earlier in the year and could sleep because of hours and hours of painful stomach cramps. Totally different from finishing off that last vo2max interval. Changing how I viewed the intense sensations experience during intervals and cycling in general makes it easier to tolerate that kind of effort and work.
Do I think Pog was suffering? No. Was it probably super intense and uncomfortable? yes.
I like the challenge, but sometimes, its just suffering!
That sense of accomplishment though when you fought through the pain and kept going, that is the reward.
As Greg Lemond said, it never gets easier, you just go faster.
I know genetics plays a part, BUT, I do think mental fortitude plays a part as well and some people just push themselves harder. I’d bet that on average, they have higher FTPs, too.
Chad even says as much during some workouts, about how people winning the races are “tough”. I forget the exact verbiage he uses, but he emphasizes toughness more than once. Toughness is that ability to push through when other people are pushing as well. Its so much a mind game… but of course you need the fitness to go with it.
Again, semantics plays a part, but I definitely suffer at times.
Words are freighted with cargo, eh? Too many negatives around “suffering” for me. That’s why I prefer “challenging” even if I’m lying to myself. If I get better results, it works.
I think this is a great point. There are days that I am willing to hurt. And it is no fun at all. Then there are days I don’t. I tend to have the opposite issue. My FTP is most likely a bit higher than I test. I say this cause I find many of the workouts a bit too easy and tend to bump them up by as much as 7-10% sometimes depending on the type of workout.
It just makes me sad that people do or choose to view the experiences of such a wonderful sport in terms of pain and suffering (words with negative associations) as opposed to framing the experiences / sensations in terms that have neutral or positive associations.
Reframing what I experiences and sensations when cycling has made difficult workouts easier to tolerate, easier to motivate myself for, and I never dread or worry about workouts. That last minute of the last vo2max interval doesn’t have to be pain or suffering. It can be what going fast feels like, or what dropping people feels like, or plenty of other positive things that we try not to avoid (like pain or suffering.)
I’m out. Sports psychology is an under-rated topic around here I guess…
I was thinking about what you wrote and I don’t know if “pain” is the right word.
I’ve had three back surgeries from herniated discs. I have been lying on my bathroom floor in agony after having my first surgery and being unable to move.
That was true suffering.
What makes the bike feel like suffering, to me, is knowing you can stop at any time and ease “whateveritis” that is screaming at you to stop, but keeping going.
You say:
I agree on ramp tests.
What about threshold efforts? 15 minutes into your final 20 minute interval? Whatever you call that, if your FTP is set correctly, is what I am talking about. When your body is screaming at you to stop, your heart rate is pegged, your legs are getting heavier and heavier. Whats that called?
Or the last climb of a race, and you are trying to stay with the lead pack, and they are almost dropping you and its everything you can do?
Some people call it suffering, call it whatever. Its that mindset of pushing yourself.
Not trying to get hung up on semantics here because we all mean the same thing. The word “challenge” motivates some people, “suffering” motivates others. Doesn’t mean they look at cycling negatively. You are putting your own views into someone else’s mind. (not you specifically!)
Its this ability, this toughness, to deal with this **** that separates the winners from the also rans, in my opinion.
I think figuring which forms of pain/suffering/impossibility you are better at pushing through can be really useful for finding the ideal training regimen. If you’re able to progressively increase the length of time at particular wattage in a zone, if you’re better at increasing wattage at a given time interval, do that instead. Focus on progressing in the zone that you’re the best at pushing yourself in and you’ll probably break through in places that you’re worse at pushing yourself in.
We all handle our perceptions differently. I dont call it suffering. It is just another moderate workout if I succeed. I definitely dont have as fine a distinction in effort as TR. It is easy, moderate and too hard/fail.
Like you with your back issues, I have a chronic illness and view pain differently. Years of pain likely has me with a different threshhold. I stop if there is a hint of pain. Riding a bike isnt painful. Too often I break a body part pushing through pain. It could be old bodies just fall apart
Sounds nice and all, maybe sufferfest should change it to euphoriafest. And paincave should be happiness cave.
Sorry if it came out snarky.
We’re arguing semantics. Maybe you get a sense of euphoria. I do, when I made it through the interval.
Cycling is so hard, the suffering is so intense, that it’s absolutely cleansing. The pain is so deep and strong that a curtain descends over your brain….Once; someone asked me what pleasure I took in riding for so long. ‘PLEASURE??? I said.’ ‘I don’t understand the question.’ I didn’t do it for the pleasure; I did it for the pain.”
― Lance Armstrong
“His pace looked so effortless that one Spanish journalist asked Pogacar if he had been grinning so much because of the pleasure he was taking in crushing his rivals. But Pogacar tartly answered that he always has that expression on his face when he is in pain.”
"Cyclists live with pain. If you can’t handle it you will win nothing” ~ Eddy Merckx
I’d rephrase that to “comfortable with being uncomfortable” I don’t like the terms pain and suffering when it comes to training. yes, it hurts a bit when doing it when you stop it goes away.
It is something we have to learn to do. It’s a big part of my coaching for kids and youth.
If you tell yourself it’s going to be painful subconsciously you will pull back. but being uncomfortable means it will end it will not be that bad and you can get through it.
Back in my college days I remember training sessions so hard, when it came time to cool down, I jogged around the stadium, curled up in a ball for 5-10 min before trying to jog a fast walk. Workouts were brutal. On a full ride it was expected. But looking back I can’t help but feel I left a ton in practice. Some of my best efforts were in practice. In fact I ran a PR 8:52 for 3200 in practice. Then did some 400s after. Felt great. Then come race day only ran 8:48 and felt like a much harder effort. I guess my point is that you need to “suffer” in practice, no way around it, but too much suffering will lead to burnout, fatigue and possibly injured. For every time you go to the well you need to recover just as intense.
I was a walking zombie in season. Always tired but performed well somehow. I was told that’s the life of a distance runner. I wonder now though if there was a way to get the volume, the threshold, the intensity without being trashed all the time.
Now in my mid-40s I have transitioned to MTB and love it. Love the training, the racing, the “suffering.” But I have no desire to go back to that level of soul crushing fatigue. Looking back I raced practice. Wish I would have focused more on recovery and race the race.
Lots of great advice here. I commiserate with you in terms of expectations.
I’ve sort of given up on increasing FTP and moved to enjoying my time on the bike and maintaining/improving fitness/maintaining muscle mass. At 58 I realize that maintaining optimum weight and muscle mass makes sense for medium and long term.
With real acknowledgment of body dimorphism in this community - perhaps change in body comp would help you in terms of fitness and help toward your goal.
Ultimately at my age I had to accept that the power for my 20 yo self at 70 kg and 13% BF would be very different than my 58yo self at 81 kg and 18% BF.