For sure. But for some athletes, the suffering and pain cave are more of a badge of honor and part of their identity than anything else. I don’t argue that suffering a bit is part of training. The correct balance is tricky
Not heard of the 3rd’s rule but it sounds good 
For me suffering is many thing’s. Fitness wise it’s starting a workout and after the first effort thinking “I can’t finish this workout”, most of the time I promise myself just one more…and can usually finish.
However I also believe that occasionally suffering because you are too hot/cold/thirsty is also good from a physological point. We can pretty much control our indoor training environment, however when we get outside and race/ride we can’t, therefore I believe knowing the feeling’s (cold/hot/thirsty, etc) and overcoming them in training occasionally has some benefit.
I recently completed my “A race”, it was super hot and I rode with a guy occasionally who was worried because his HR was higher than “normal”, it was freeking him out to the point he baled on day 3. I may be wrong but I guess he hadn’t trained when it was super hot and knew his bodies response.
In response to your 3rd’s quote. I like the one that “train to be comfortable being un-comfortable”. (I think it’s from the military)
That’s suffering
Agree. Whenever I have long gravel events where I know weather might be unpredictable and conditions less than an ideal I always throw in some outdoor workouts when conditions are cruddy. Go out for a rainy ride or a ride when it’s extra cold. All to get me in a mental space of having to deal with some discomfort.
Oh, @IvyAudrain…
Swimming - feels good
Cycling - feels okay
Running - feels crappy
I agree. Others might not and are welcome to post rebuttals 
Am wondering if TR has created a long term problem for itself by apparently banking the future on AT. Reason being that AT is not smart or knowledgable. It’s a mathematical algorithm which is trained on input data.
If AT has been trained based on success or failure of athletes doing TR plans, which seems a decent assumption, then AT is going to be constrained by that data set and definition of success. In effect, AT will ‘think’ that a success path is completion of high intensity + low volume training. Because that’s the type of data the algorithm was trained on. Without additional data, there is no way to train AT on alternative training plans. Even with TR’s dataset, it’s not likely to be diverse enough to truly optimize training.
Sort of same situation for Plan Builder. All Plan Builder can do is link together the TR plan building blocks. If those building blocks are suboptimal then linking them together doesn’t get you very far.
AT might be good for modifying TR plans, but if those plans are suboptimal then AT can’t fix them. New riders are still going to see the NOOB gains from structured training, but are still going to plateau and likely burnout from doing low volume + high intensity training year on year.
We shall see…
That’s not meant to pick on TR, it’s just a fun discussion. TR is what it is and I find much of it to be useful. Which is why I stay subscribed.
I am exactly in the same position. I decided to take the rest of the year ‘off’ and just get comfortable consistently doing longer weeks without getting sick or any other illness as well as learn how to fit training in my work/life balance.
I found with TR i burnt out in after about 5 months of training doing about 400tss a week. Now I am doing 450TSS a week but higher volume but will less sickness.
My FTP has dropped but hopefully by the time i start TR in January - I will have a higher training capacity and therefore improve gains. I will limit TR usage to about 4-5 months before A race and stop using it during off and base season! Lets hope i can reach the big 5!
Wow, I didn’t think this thread would initiate this much great discussion. I was originally worried that my post would be read as “Is TR a waste of time” but I am happy to see that does not seem to be the case. The general consensus does appear to be that I could be using my training time more efficiently. I have not had the capacity to reply to each comment but I have read all the replies and have reflected on all the information.
Prior to starting TR I would ride outside all summer and get to a certain fitness level (about 3 w/kg), only to lose fitness over the winter, and then gain the same fitness level back over the next summer. After using TR over the last winter I came into spring losing almost no fitness and maybe even gaining a small amount. As such I expected my fitness to explode over this summer, but that was in hindsight not necessarily realistic. My plan in spring was to use the summer doing the interval sessions on the trainer and zone 2 sessions outside, however as the summer got nicer I spent more and more rides outside which made it harder to hit my intensities and durations on the intervals. Perhaps if I had stuck to my original plan of doing intervals on the trainer rather than outside I would have seen better results.
I have my A race in 2 weeks so I won’t be making any changes until after that, but my plan going forward is to go back to low volume plan and add in a zone 2 workout if time and recovery allow. I also will probably try the Sweet Spot plan based on some of the recommendations to see how that fits into my routine.
I also want to thank everyone for their replies, I found them all very helpful and/or entertaining.
Thats funny, because I haven’t felt like I’ve ‘suffered’ during training any time recently. Intense discomfort, yes, suffering - no. IMHO, if one feels they are ‘suffering’ during training they need to reconsider their hobbies. If you love cycling, how is doing threshold / vo2max workouts suffering? Intense and unconfortable sure, but if you love cycling, is it really ‘suffering’?
Sounds like a matter of semantics to me, my friend.
Intense discomfort/suffering?
Not semantics to me. Reframing how I perceive sensations makes intense intervals more tolerable.
And as a non-professional cyclist, why would I want to do a hobby that involves a lot of pain and suffering? How does one explain our hobby to others if pain and suffering are so intertwined?
I like “challenge” or “challenging”. With those in mind I can get into a really motivated and productive headspace.
“OK. What you got today, David?” 
Well, we all have different goals, dont we? I want to win races. When I have workouts I push to finish them. That means I am hurting pretty bad towards the end and I want to quit. But I don’t. I suffer through it.
People who do endurance events suffer. Don’t think Pogacar was suffering when he was trying to keep up with Vingegaard? Think people who deal with saddle sores doing the race across america dont suffer when riding over 24 hours straight?
Sure, I can go ride the bike paths and never suffer, but that isn’t what I want to do.
We all have different reasons for why we train, and thats ok. But I stand by my belief that learning how to suffer and continue to push will make you a stronger rider overall.
Caveat that this is “in reason”. I dont think suffering through injury, or overtraining, or starving yourself, or any of these extremes is the proper way to suffer.
I don’t race. But I think I train harder that many people who do. Its not suffering to me though. I enjoy cycling and dealing with intense feelings is part of doing hard and getting stronger. That last minute of a vo2max interval isn’t suffering to me, its what going fast feels like. Its what smashing a hill feels like. Its what dropping friends feels like.
Suffering is when I had GI issues earlier in the year and could sleep because of hours and hours of painful stomach cramps. Totally different from finishing off that last vo2max interval. Changing how I viewed the intense sensations experience during intervals and cycling in general makes it easier to tolerate that kind of effort and work.
Do I think Pog was suffering? No. Was it probably super intense and uncomfortable? yes.
Type 2 fun.
For me, getting and being fast is fun, and that requires some pain/suffering.
I like it!
I like the challenge, but sometimes, its just suffering!
That sense of accomplishment though when you fought through the pain and kept going, that is the reward.
As Greg Lemond said, it never gets easier, you just go faster.
I know genetics plays a part, BUT, I do think mental fortitude plays a part as well and some people just push themselves harder. I’d bet that on average, they have higher FTPs, too.
Chad even says as much during some workouts, about how people winning the races are “tough”. I forget the exact verbiage he uses, but he emphasizes toughness more than once. Toughness is that ability to push through when other people are pushing as well. Its so much a mind game… but of course you need the fitness to go with it.
Again, semantics plays a part, but I definitely suffer at times.
Words are freighted with cargo, eh? Too many negatives around “suffering” for me. That’s why I prefer “challenging” even if I’m lying to myself. If I get better results, it works.