if this isn’t love, i don’t know what is
Interesting how it varies. I use “counting” as a signifier of a “very hard” workout when I’m counting to 10 repeatedly to get through an interval. “All out/max effort” is basically the interval after “very hard - couldn’t do another interval” where I lose form on the bike and throw my upper body around a bit to encourage the pedals to keep turning.
I wish they had a “bet” button where you could occasionally opt into doing one more interval to see how bad it really gets. Sometimes I wonder if I really know my limits or if I’m selling myself short.
Are you not always using high tempo rock/heavy metal for your VO2 workouts? It lowers the RPE by 1.
I’m blasting metal for all of my workouts. But I have to be careful, when I start head banging my heart rate goes up.
Easy and Moderate I have TV shows or races on.
Hard I put on music. Rock and rap.
Very Hard I switch to hardcore/EDM/techno.
All Out I can’t even pay attention to music. All my focus is on survival.
Okay, I think we’re all agreed then. The survey needs to be switched to what type of music did you listen to and did you take any caffeine beforehand? 
I’m generally fine with the survey as it is, but I wish that it would remove “all out” and add one more level below that. I would think very hard could encompass the all out rating. Since I don’t ramp test anymore, I never go all out during a workout, and I don’t really want to. Even on the workouts I fail, I know failure is coming, and I pull the plug minutes before I get there. I mark those very hard, because that’s what they were, very hard. I could have done some more if I had to, and I don’t want the AI thinking that was an all out effort when it wasn’t.
I think sweetspot is hard 80-90% of the time.
Threshold is hard or very 60/40 spilt
Vo2 very hard or max effort. You’re physiologically making payments you can’t afford in this zone. It’s meant to feel like death.
Hell even most z2 or endurance rides are moderate because intensity or length. I don’t think I could happily text or sort emails or even focus fully on a film at .65+IF. towards the end of ptarmigan is a slog. Even Perkins is moderately testing at the end.
Truly easy is <1hr <0.55IF. In my experience
I actually think that the additional data that the update offers is actually causing a lot of people undue stress and anxiety that they didn’t really have when the only option was to wait 28 days and see what happened to your FTP and hope it increased. As someone who has trained 10+ hours/week on the bike for years, I always hope for an increase, but I also know that at the pointy end of my performance stick, it becomes harder and harder to see performance gains.
Look forward to racing you during CSU weekend! Cobb lake is one of my favs. What category are you racing?
I think this is why they told us to answer based on how we feel. Any endurance workout from TR is easy. There is no effort from me even if it is .75. I just ride and zone in on my ride.
Majority of efforts are moderate. The only all out workout would have been the ramp test.
May 5-10% of workouts are hard.
It’s subjectivity. I may just expect to work harder and if it matches what I think it should be then I am good. If anything it is marked hard it is really because it took focus. Just because we answer RPE differently shouldn’t impact anything.
Yes…summarizing the posts the consensus scale is now:
- Jazz (the ride was so boringly easy, I could have even tolerated jazz music)
- Classic (a ride as smooth as a Mozart symphony)
- Guitar rock (needed some effort as did Bon Jovi for his curly perm back in the days)
- Dutch techno (the imagination of me dancing at a Rotterdam rave with 6 Heineken at 140 bpm brought me through the workout)
- Wait…did I have music on my ears?
As long as you’re consistent within yourself and your ratings, it’s OK for the model. But if you don’t use the complete scale of the model (like not using very hard) or overwhelmingly use like two of five options of the scale, you will definitely add more noise to the prediction of the model. You do you.
Ha cr-2 is the downgrade. It was vennacher-1.
TR has repeatedly said that intensity days should be hard or very hard. If you’re only getting to moderate or easy, why aren’t you upping the intensity until you get there?
Well, the thing is, the reply seems to have an outsized effect on the AI prediction (and probably on future suggested workouts). Case in point: My next AI detection is on Tuesday; there are only two remaining workouts in my calendar between now and Tuesday. If I rate today’s Threshold workout “hard”, the prediction is 282; if “very hard”, it becomes 277. (The two intervening workouts are the same in both cases.) So the reply clearly matters.
But again it is all in perception of how you view it. I can get to a hard day with a tough threshold. So this is what happened when they gave me my AI FTP. It really was too much given the impact on my HR.
If I do the intervals without any real focus then why would it be hard? This isnt to say I am not working.
I know VO2 will be a focus but I also find VO2 to not always be challenging. I have always done well with them and lower efforts for me are in no way challenging until we get into the higher areas of the old levels for workouts. Currrent one was 5.7 which wasn’t bad and was a stretch workout from the prior.
The other point is at 65 I dont need a very hard day. I just need to improve each time. I have been sick for two years with a chronic disease. I know my limits and what works for my health. It’s the main reason I didnt accept the AI FTP increase. It was too much and was projecting a lower number 28 days later after a few rides. Just felt backwards for me.
I will say I also likely underreport my effort as I do suspect many rate them differently. I am blessed with a strong VO2 and recovery very quickly with a short rest of easy pedalling. I recover breathing very easily which I am sure why I dont view the effort in the same manner,
I have always said the 5 levels are too much for me. I cant really differentiate hard, very hard and all out. If the ride is going to be very hard I likely will stop and fail the workout. So a completed very hard or all out just doesnt happen unless we go back to a ramp test. In my view I am consistent with my view of how I viewed the effort.
The other reason I would say I dont hit the very hard or all out is I likely pick a lower workout if I view the projected workout as too much. I do understand what I am capable of. I dont care if it takes me an extra week to get to that workout For me consistency in improvement is the goal.
Edit: I just realized you indicated FTP prediction would be impacted. I dont see it. It plays no bearing in how I answer as I have a manually entered FTP. I only care if the next workout is appropriate. If the model measures my work then all should be good.
As a chronic over-thinker, I felt this. I love some of the new tools but it’s taking a lot of self-restraint to not over-think my training to death.
I swear every time I see someone post about how awful the new system is, once they post their actual training you can see they’re just not following the structure, or making their own substitutions. I admit I did substitute a couple VO2 workouts last week but I’m coming off a few months of sweet spot base, had my first XCO race coming up that weekend, and decided I’d rather not have that “first VO2 workout in a while” shock during the race (which I won).
It’s possible this new TR AI is “awful” but how the hell would they know if they’re not using it the way it’s intended?
I think their frustration is that it is calling them out on their bad choices. So actually probably giving them feedback that would improve their training.
Agree. There should be four options, only three of which we would use mostly. Easy, Moderate, Hard, Failed. That’s all you need.