Adaptive Training Closed Beta Update

Ditto, I think it’s a temporary bug TR are aware of and working on.
Edit I am doing workouts on a Garmin, so it’s not just a Wahoo issue.

Maybe its because the majority of folk (including me) don’t actually log out of TR and just open the web page/app :thinking:

I’d be curious to know if there’s a difference between the apps in the way they sync etc. My trainer set up is a new Tab A7 which is significantly more powerful and newer than my phone, yet it syncs massively slower and something needs closed and restarted to update.

It’s not been an issue as I usually update the post workout survey on my phone whilst stretching after, but it’s weird that my phone syncs flawlessly when they should be the same app. The phone syncs just fine when I do workouts at work so it’s not just the computing/processing of the ride.

I’m counting on/hoping that eventually they’ll all be perfectly syncd

I have started to ask the same question.

My iPhone 11 works perfectly with the App, as does my Apple desktop. My iPad on the other hand hates the App. It’s really laggy and crashes regularly. To the best of my knowledge the Apple software is up to date, as is the TR App.

Found a small bug on one of my recent rides where it was wrongly marked as “cut short”: - TrainerRoad

I did the ride inside using the app on the iPad. I had loaded up the workout in the app and was setting up everything. Once I got on to the bike and started pedaling, I noticed that the target power on the bike was lower than expected for a warm up and one look at the tablet showed me that somehow the cursor was already in the cool down phase. Must have accidentally touched the tablet screen at some point.
So I paused the workout and dragged the cursor to the start. There was a pop-up warning that this would overwrite what I had already done, clicked ok and went on to complete the workout.

Now the issue was that afterwards the ride was marked as cut short and the progression levels were not updating. I then marked the ride as an unplanned ride and associated it again with the workout, that solved it as I was able to enter the survey result and progression levels were updated.

Hello gang,

I need your opinion please.

Today I did the above workout. The sweetspot work at 94% was no problem. Neither were the first 7 sprints at 150%. Though eventually that changed. The last sprint was miserable as were the subsequent three minutes. I guess my cadence visualizes that quite well.

When rating the workout I wasn’t too sure whether put hard or very hard. If I select very hard, AT says that it looked too intense and asks me for an additional assessment. If I select hard it doesn’t ask that.

So what’s your take on this? Based on what I said how I felt, would you rate hard or very hard?

Also, can an IF of 0.96 feel any different than very hard/all out?

I only say “very hard” if the workout was so hard that I doubted that I was going to be able to complete it

That said that particular workout looks very hard.

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I’ve been following this thread fairly religiously and am really enjoying AT but I’m unclear on this as well. Specifically, for the post-ride survey, I’m trying to figure out how to respond on the spectrum of, let’s call it “objective difficulty vs. difficulty relative to expectations,” and how that influences the choices AT makes. This is most clear at the extreme end of the spectrum but actually gets a little more confusing somewhere in the middle.

Two examples:

Redondo +2: the only way this workout isn’t going to be brutal is if you’ve significantly underestimated your FTP. So assuming you complete the workout and are wrecked at the end how do you respond?

  1. Moderate - does this tell the machine that it’s what you expected, as in “moderate vs. expectations, not harder than what I expected” (so AT makes no changes; everything is on track) or would it mean “I expected a more difficult workout than it gave me, so it was only moderately difficult compared to what I was expecting?” (so upgrading the difficulty on some future workouts).
  2. Hard - this seems the most likely answer because it works on both fronts: you expected a hard workout and got one, and it also just kicked your ass. And I’m guessing this wouldn’t cause AT to make any adaptations, but just note that you worked hard and things seem on track.
  3. Very Hard - the flip side of Moderate - does this mean “I expected it to be hard but it was way too freaking hard” and cause AT to downgrade future works based on difficulty finishing the workout, or does it mean “I expected an ass-kicking and I got an ass-kicking” so everything is on track?

Lazy Mountain: this is a recovery ride, generally speaking, so do you mark it -

  1. Easy - You expected an easy workout and got one, so everything is on track and AT doesn’t make any changes. Or does it mean you expected something easy, but this way too easy, so future rest day recommendations will be scaled up a bit?
  2. Moderate - The opposite of Easy. “I expected a very easy workout, but this was moderately difficult so downgrade it next time.” or “I was expecting Easy, so this Moderate relative to my expectations. Everything is on track.”

So having written all that - can we get a little more clarity about what the survey responses actually mean and how they affect the choices AT makes? It might also be worthwhile to re-think the actual response options to make the impact of the choices a little more clear to the user. It could give AT users more of a feeling of agency and control, as opposed to plugging answers into a black box (which is pretty much what using Machine Learning is at this point, of course).

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  • TR has said that “expectations” are NOT a part of the survey.

  • It is purely about how it “felt”.

See my file for the proper interpretation of what the survey responses mean, and how they should be used.

Here is the official post from TR, in the thread where we are discussing surveys.

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Great, thanks for the link to the doc! (and I requested access) So the survey response is just part of the data set AT is using and doesn’t automatically determine an outcome by itself? I’ve been pretty happy with how AT is doing things, but I have to confess it’s driving me a little nuts not knowing at all what’s going on behind the scenes.

  • Covered in the email, but I keep my master sheet locked. I sent instructions on how to make your own copy from my sheet.
  • Correct. The survey response is only one piece of the puzzle.
  • We may learn some more about it all, but we will never have a full picture of the process for a number of reasons.
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  • With the qualifier that a person is riding with an “accurate FTP”, and confirming that 0.96 IF is for a 60 minute workout, I think a Very Hard to All Out are quite likely and appropriate.

  • That is considering what that IF and Duration typically mean, and in light of the survey info TR shared, and I summarized as seen above.

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It is definitely doing some learning of your usual responses behind the scenes.

My normal response with any of the “target” workouts (the ones on the hard days) has been to rank things 3-Hard based on Chad’s table, which I don’t think has ever led to adaptations. Then when I rank things 2 or 4 I have been getting adaptations harder or easier.

Other posters have reported that AT is giving them adaptations when they rank 3, which I haven’t seen so far (although I can see it might happen if I ranked a workout significantly below my PL as Hard), but they seem to be using the lower rankings a lot more than I do. AT seems to have learnt that and makes the adjustments based on your own response history rather than having a generic rule. I get the impression (maybe unjustified) that some users are ranking lower deliberately to try and get faster progress (I guess this is human nature…) but AT seems to have some limiters built in around this, otherwise ultracompetitive types would be ranking everything 1 and blowing themselves out within 3 weeks :smiley:

So I would suggest the key is to be consistent with your approach to rankings.

Also that workout looks miserable!

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How Do i know which TR workout should I use to associate an outside ride?

You don’t - I have been making an educated guess based on IF, TSS and time in zones.

You’re better off taking a look at an outdoor version of a TR workout and trying to keep that in mind when doing your outdoor ride. If it’s a group ride or something totally unstructured then you’re pretty much guessing at the moment and I would question the value of making the association.

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  • I would say my FTP is accurate. I am right at 4.46 wpkg and that has proven to be the pointier end of my fitness curve. Little baby, poor sleep and lots of stress certainly don’t help. I guess I will leave my initial rating then and let it sit at very hard. On TP I gave it an 8/10. So somewhere in the ballpark.

  • Thanks for bringing that up again. I will look into it. Your chart and the “could do one more interval” aspect sealed it for me. I couldn’t have done another interval without failing during the second sprint.

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Thanks for your answer!
In other words it is useless.

I would not say that - it makes it much, much easier to do/get credit for TR workouts outdoors.

It’s not intended to allow you to manually classify every ride that you do for PL benefit and wasn’t advertised as such. It was brought in to help fix issues people were having with outdoor workouts not working properly with their PLs.

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Big news: we are opening Adaptive Training to early access! This means that any TrainerRoad athlete can now use Adaptive Training by enabling access from the Early Access section of your account.

We acknowledge how cluttered this thread has become when used as a space to post questions and get help, and its made it difficult for athletes to find the advice and shared experiences they’re looking for when joining and using Adaptive Training.
That said, to avoid further confusion, we’re going to close this thread and direct athletes this thread: 'Adaptive Training is now in Open Beta!, which will act as a landing page for athletes to receive Adaptive Training updates from the TrainerRoad team, and share experiences and helpful tips.

If you have questions or need a second look at any Adaptive Training topics like your Progression Levels, Surveys, or pending adaptations, please check in with support@trainerroad.com for assistance.

Speaking of which, we now have comprehensive new help center resources for Adaptive Training:Adaptive Training Overview
Adaptive Training Known Issues
How to Check for Adaptations
How Does Adaptive Training Recommend Workouts?
Progression Levels
Difficulty Levels
Workout Levels
Post-Workout Surveys
Calendar Annotations
How to Add Time Off to Your Calendar
Why did my Progression Levels Adjust after an FTP change?
How to Use Outside Workouts with Adaptive Training
Does Adaptive Training Recommend Adaptations for Swim and Run Workouts?
Does Adaptive Training work on non-Plan Builder Training Plans?
How to use Workout Alternates
Updated Training Plans FAQ

Let support@trainerroad.com if you have any questions or need a second look at anything, otherwise, feel free to post helpful tips and experiences below, and follow along for updates from the TrainerRoad team!

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