Adaptive Training Closed Beta Update

:slightly_frowning_face:

I just had an odd Adaptive Training experience. I just finished my first 4-week block of a Plan Builder program. I have it set as Low Volume, so rides on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, and on Saturday and Sunday I do outdoor rides or if it rains, 1.5-2 hour Endurance TrainerRoad rides.

Today when I booted up the app to take my Ramp Test for the next 4-week block, I was first presented with adaptations for every workout in the block – most workouts were reduced by 1-2 full progression levels.

This seems like odd behavior that the system would deem all the workouts in the upcoming block to be too difficult prior to my ramp test. I haven’t had a failed workout yet, and I feel like I had an easy time with almost every workout in the first block, at least my HR is a bit lower than normal for the same efforts earlier in the year.

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Doesn’t seem to be the case, I’ve done 6 workouts since and no test. Not that I would do it, anyway.

Just some anecdotal feedback on AT, or more specifically the Progression Levels and decay rates…

Decay rates on energy systems that take a long time to build and sustain (months to years), are not individualized enough IMO. If I can bang out a PL 10 work in Endurance, Tempo, and Sweetspot energy systems w/ a post-survey RPE of “moderate” as the highest–within an ongoing 20-hour training week and cycle of 4weeks on, 1 week rest–the decay rate on these workouts should last longer than 10-14 days. There’s absolutely no reason to drop from a 10 in these zones, down to a 6 when all this other training is going on simultaneously.

I understand that mine may be a highly individualized case… but, if training history and performance across all energy systems is a part of the MI/AI, then it should be smarter than that.

Consider the following:

June 2nd: SST 8.3
June 22nd: SST 10.3

Today, July 6… SST PL dropped to 6.4. Why?

If anything, I could understand it defaulting back to the 8.3… but, even below that? Nope.

Have an 11.3 SST scheduled tomorrow, and yeah, it’ll go back up. But, I’m utilizing custom workouts and applying the PLs, as i’ve noted before to “keep me honest” … but, I can see this becoming bothersome and prompting training in certain areas that, in fact, haven’t decayed that much, if at all according to what the career landing page shows.

–kellen

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I agree with you…more work is needed on the PL adjustments. There also should be some cross impact on the PL. If your doing sweet spot work…it has to somehow impact endurance level as well.

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:sunglasses:

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Definitely complete that Ramp Test before accepting those adaptations, but this may be due to your outside unstructured rides that are unfortunately not being accounted for (yet!).

Edit: are you just adding those outside rides, or switching your endurance workouts already prescribed to ‘outside’?

Oops! I am trying to be faithful to the ML system, so I am always accepting adaptations. I figure that having more data about the efficacy of the adaptations proposed will yield better overall results (system wide), even at the expense of my own training :grimacing:

Those additional Saturday and Sunday rides are not scheduled and are “free rides” synced via Strava.

My current training plan is Low Volume:

  • Tuesday: TrainerRoad - 60 minutes often subbed with 90 minute alternative
  • Wednesday: TrainerRoad - 60 minutes often subbed with 90 minute alternative
  • Thursday: TrainerRoad - 90 minutes
  • Saturday: Non-TrainerRoad, synced via Strava - 3 hour group or solo ride
  • Sunday: Non-TrainerRoad, synced via Strava - 3 hour group or solo ride
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Soon™ I assume.

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Cool! Still odd that you got adaptations at such a significant decrease, I mean those outside rides definitely speak to your overall fitness and training load being much greater than what Plan Builder alone is prescribing you. Nice work!

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I agree. I did sub in a 90 minute endurance ride on the most recent Sunday because it was raining. However, the app did not propose any adaptations after completing that ride.

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This is one of those details where being specific is helpful. On the last podcast Nate said outside rides with Garmin are working (not my experience). I think here you are speaking to unstructured outside rides (in comparison to workouts pushed to a Garmin for outside, yes?).

Can you please given the current status on what aspects of outside rides with Garmin are or are not working? Thanks!

Apologies! I edited my post to clarify: outside unstructured rides are not accounted for within AT yet.

Sorry for the confusion.

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Follow-up on this (forgive me if it’s been answered).

If I am going for a long outside ride, would creating a “Free Ride” Outside workout be a way to capture that ride for future adaptations? Admittedly, I have not looked to see if “Free Ride” is still an option. I am using the AT Beta I am planning to just add my outside rides on the fly (Garmin Edge 1030 to record) and do not intend the ones I have upcoming to be “structured.” They will be longer road/gravel rides with a friend.

No worries!

There is not yet a way for unstructured rides like that, even if recorded on Garmin, to be accounted for in your Adaptations and Progression Levels. HIGH priority to incorporate. The only Garmin workouts accounted for in AT need to be TR workouts, I wonder if anyone has had success with the ‘Free Ride’ workout though? I think that’s a no.

Going to try to get a better reading from the team about timelines/roadblocks we’re facing/where we’re at for unstructured outside rides.

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Thanks Ivy. All good. If the rides are productive it’ll bear out in future planned rides and RPE surveys I am sure. I appreciate the quick reply. So far I’ve had good experience with the AT and TN features. N=1 for what that’s worth.

Cheers,

Tim

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Kinda given up hope will ever get into the beta now! Still waiting! :joy:

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I was recently added to beta and have just put together a little “salvage the summer” plan after a lot of time off the bike this summer. Without even starting the plan (begins 7/13) and just doing a little ad hoc Z2 this week, my progression levels have changed… I mean, that’s cool - BUT…

I would really really like to see my progression level history. Has anybody mentioned that here yet (sorry, I wasn’t in beta for a long time and was not following this thread). Not sure exactly how I’d like to see it, but maybe similar to the PR chart, you could filter on zone and instead of duration on the x-axis, it could be a selected date range

Or on the home page progression screen, just add a date filter and it would change the bar graph to what it was on that date.

I’m not a tech person, so maybe that’s wildly unrealistic to store that data, but I feel like it’s just formulas off stored ride data anyway right? The progression levels are cool, but without being able to go back and see them, I’m not seeing much value in them aside from being a little carrot on a stick.

It’s been discussed, and a couple of users have put together some nice looking graphs of their own PL history. The problem with an official history is that you would essentially need infinite PL history graphs/record lists (or you know from say 150-350W or whatever) because PL’s at different FTP’s are going to be quite different.

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Dang that’s a good point. I haven’t gotten to see how that works in practice and this didn’t even cross my mind. Welp, carrots on sticks are still something lol. Or using the level to select workouts outside of the plan.

Somebody smarter than me please solve this.