9 weeks out A race. Replacing one interval session per week with actual race simulation on the actual race course

Training
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Is this a stupid idea? I’ll tell you my reasons at the end but first, some context for the race:

The race isn’t an insanely hard one from one point of view. It’s kind of like an interval session in itself. It runs like this every year:

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2 laps of:
15 mins Z2
4 mins max hill effort
2 mins descend
4 mins max hill effort
2 mins descend
25 mins Z2
7-9 mins max hill effort depending who you are
15 mins Z2

Finishes on top of the 7-9 min max hill effort on Lap 2.

I race cat 5 so there’s no real strategy, team work or breakaway. It’s all about not getting dropped in the hills until the last climb. Easy parts are super easy unless you lose wheels somehow. Hard parts are extremely hard because of giant talent / fitness difference.

I say that it’s not a super hard one but it’s also pretty impossible for me to win with my 4w/kg FTP and not a crazy high 4 min power / weight. I just try to finish better every year. I’m also working on delivering my best power at the end of the race. Getting better but haven’t been able to achieve that yet even at my current trained gut going through 120grams / hour of sugar. I’m always BEAT towards the end and the last hill is a good bit slower than my first lap every time.

Talent is crazy and it’s not uncommon to see KOM’s or top 10 results on climb segments even in cat 5 every year, which makes it very hard to not get dropped until the end, let alone win it. Because there’s not much strategy though, you end up catching the group if you kill yourself and/or work together with chasers at tempo instead of Z2. Then you just get dropped in the last climb again anyway.

Anyway so the question is, this year I kinda wanna replace Sunday interval sessions with actual race sims, hoping it will help me practice/train durability and nutrition. I did one yesterday and REALLY enjoyed it. Helped me strategize when and where to take nutrition and find where I’m lacking in the power department. Would I benefit from running this every weekend or am I better off just doing intervals, which I don’t find nearly as fun.

Despite being cat 5, I’ve been doing structured training for the last 10 years. Especially disciplined in the last 2 years averaging 12 hours of structured training per week. Just going through a little bit of mental burnout and only thing that makes it more fun is actual race and race prep / sims or pr attempts nowadays.

Any input appreciated!
Bonus points for guessing this California race.

Hope that word salad made sense! :smiling_face_with_tear:

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The way you describe this courese it does sound like a structured workout. I don’t think you have much to lose, if anything by doing this. How long is this course? I’m assuming you would be doing at least one other structured workout during the week or maybe two. I’d just suggest you work on the efforts kinda like you would in your structured training plan so you could at least build up to the event. What were you thinking? Just going balls to the wall on all the hills then Z2 in between?

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Pretty much! Added the elevation profile in the OP as well for visualizing it.

  • Course takes around 2 hours 15 to 2 hours 20 total. There’s a few who drop very far back and finish later but main group is in that range.
  • Yes! Didn’t wanna over-complicate the first post but I’m planning to do 4min intervals and progress in power and number of sets on Tuesdays. Then around 3 weeks to go I think I’ll add 3 sets of 12x30/30 or 40/20 type intervals on Fridays instead of pure Z2 endurance to overall have more intensity and less hours / volume.
  • As far as plan, that’s pretty much it. I’m hoping the 4 min efforts this year won’t be as MAX as last years as I’m gonna race around 15lbs less this year than last and ~10lbs less than other years. But it will definitely be 9 out of 10 RPE minimum. Same as the last 7-9 minute hill.

My race experience is generally getting dropped on the second 4 minute hill on the last lap, catching up (requires ~ tempo watts. Nothing too crazy) to the main group with all the other people who get dropped then get dropped again on the last hill.

What I’m trying to get out of the sim is at least matching my lap 2 power on all the 3 hills with my lap 1 powers. That would be a significant step forward and I wouldn’t care where I finished on the last hill. Before I achieve this, I feel like I don’t even have a chance of top 10 out of 40-50 people. As mentioned I took 120grams per hour yesterday including a caffeine gel in the last 30 minutes and got my best result so far. I’m hoping repeating the sim and also doing the 4 min intervals will hopefully raise my power and durability enough. Currently we’re looking at around 10 watts loss on the second lap for the first 2 hills and a whopping 20 watts on the last hill :grimacing:

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This is not a stupid idea at all! In fact, incorporating race sims into your training is a smart approach, especially if you’re aiming to improve durability, nutrition, and how to manage your effort throughout the race. It sounds like you’re getting a great deal of value from these sessions already by testing nutrition strategies and identifying your power limitations. It can definitely help with pacing and learning to push through the tough parts of the race, which is a major factor in long, intense events like this one.

Given your structured training and disciplined approach, I think race sims could definitely be a worthwhile addition. You’re training to mimic race conditions, which is critical for both physical and mental endurance. However, be mindful of balancing these sessions with intervals to maintain your peak fitness—both play crucial roles in your training. As for Fab Balance Check Online, if you’re looking to optimize your nutrition for training and recovery, it might be a good idea to monitor your balance and recovery through online services that can help ensure you’re keeping track of your nutritional intake and overall progress.

The key is finding what keeps you motivated and ensures you’re progressing. If race sims are fun and productive for you, incorporating them into your weekly routine seems like a solid plan!

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Hey there,

Welcome to the forum! :partying_face:

These types of race simulations can certainly be productive.

I’m not sure if once a week is entirely necessary, but if you’re really enjoying them and they feel productive, then by all means, do what feels right for you.

With the efforts being from 4-9 minutes long, I’d probably replace a VO2 Max workout with these rides. Also, ensure that your rest weeks are free from these types of all-out “max efforts.” :sweat_smile:

If you had a TrainerRoad plan in place, this would be super easy to schedule/manage. :grin:

The structure of 2x4 1x7, 2x4 1x7 seems like a decent workout, though!

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Pesca - dero. Well it’s beautiful out there so I don’t feel bad for you for doing it over and over. In fact, I’m a bit jealous. I’m moving back up to the 650 from San Diego so maybe I’ll be there and might do some practice rides too.

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We have a winner! You can redeem the bonus points at the San Gregorio General Store when you move back around here and ride the course :slight_smile:

It is indeed beautiful around there. Being a one car household, I’m lucky that my girlfriend and her close friend loves it too so she drives me there, hangs out with the friend and at the beach for 3-4 hours while I ride! She’s already asking when I go next :partying_face:

Good luck with the move!

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Admittedly, after using TR for several seasons and then getting private coaching for the last 2 years, I’ve been spoiled by not having to think about these things myself so here we are, asking the forums about weird self-made training plans :grin:

Once I’m done with this “I’m doing my own thing phase” I’ll probably sign back up and stop staring at Training Peaks calendar and painstakingly planning workouts there.

I’m indeed taking the rest weeks easy :saluting_face: Just one non-all out intensity workout and Z2 otherwise with half the usual week load.

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This is definitely not a stupid idea — in fact, replacing one weekly interval session with race simulation, especially on the actual course, sounds like a high-value move. You’re essentially stacking specificity, durability, and fueling practice all in one, which standard intervals can’t fully replicate. Given you’re 9 weeks out, it’s a great time to start sharpening that race-day readiness.

Plus, you clearly know your body and performance trends — training for how your power drops in the second lap and adjusting nutrition accordingly shows smart insight. It’s like using a Brat Generator : breaking your performance into components and learning how they behave under pressure.

Also, your enjoyment matters. Burnout is real, and motivation plays a huge role in adaptation. If race sims keep you excited and mentally engaged, that’s a win.

Reminds me of how Snapchat Planet visualizes evolving social patterns — what you’re doing with your training is similarly dynamic and analytical. You’re not just building fitness; you’re building race-day intelligence.

So yeah, go for the race sims — just monitor fatigue closely and keep 1–2 structured intensity days elsewhere to maintain targeted gains. You’ve got the experience to make it work.

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How’s the training going @guer604? The race is right around the corner. The race is a month out…have you been getting the results you’ve hoped for? I’m completely intimidated by the course length…3 laps is no joke. I’m decently fit, but I just don’t think I have enough long rides logged to last past two laps.

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To be completely honest, I had to take a break.

12 hours per week + 2 hours at the gym was working great for months but then shortly after my post here, my brother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer which meant dog sitting at their place while they are in the hospital, stress and all sorts of things that added up to just crumbling down after almost 3 years of impeccable training / nutrition / sleep.

It’s ok though. Probably needed the break. By break I mean I still ride 5-6 hours per week but lost a good chunk of FTP. I decided to not race any more this year. Just signed on Trainerroad again after a long long time. Turned strava to private rides. Just doing my thing and it finally feels good to ride again.

My best 20 min effort was 275 watts at 144 lbs back in feb. I went down to 245 pretty quickly when I dropped the structured training. I did 3 weeks of raise FTP program and did a 253 on Sunday. Just gonna keep doing that rest of this year and not sacrifice vacations, weight lifting, chill time, hikes, back packing trips and see where it takes me.

As far as practicing race course, I think it was great. I was improving every week I rode it. I figured out my nutrition and minimized my power drop for the last lap Haskins hill effort, which is what the race is all about. Keeping your power close as possible to your best effort at the end of the race. On my last time “practicing” the course, my last lap climb up Haskins was my 2nd best time ever up that hill while my 1st lap was my best ever time up it, so I took that as a great improvement.

@Stevie_Dee I don’t know which cat you race (sounds like either masters or cat 3 or better) but I think simply riding as easy as possible anywhere that doesn’t require high power is the key to that race (like many other races). That and nutrition. When I look at my past races, to keep within the group, I was pretty much riding at mid zone 2 for a good chunk of the race. I wouldn’t try to be a hero at all and keep with the big group. No attacks. Get through little bumps in the terrain with least power as possible.

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So sorry to hear about your brother. Anything like that would definitely take the wind out of my sails. FWIW, sounds like you were on a path to success with all of your training. Even though you’re not going to do the race, I bet it’s was pretty cool to experience those improvements during your training rides. Based on your training history a good rest may benefit you in the future. You sound pretty fit and I’m guessing you can get back to that level whenever you decide to put the work back in.

As for me, if I were to do the race, for sure I’d have to be the best wheel sucker possible. I don’t know what It’ll be like on race day, but the wind was just absolutely brutal when I went out last weekend. I’d be doing the M50+ and for sure would have to be fully carb loaded and rested to finish strong, let alone finish at all. It’s extremely unlikely that I’ll do the event, but chances are pretty good that I’ll ride the loop again because it’s a great course in a beautiful part of the county.

Take it easy and hope you enjoy the summer.

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Pescadero! Look out for feed zone attacks at the base of the big climb.