80:20 training is a lie?

:rofl: :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Are you a fellow physicist?

You are correct in that he created the 80:20 ā€˜brandā€™

I have followed Seiler on strava for quite a while. I am surprised he has so few followers. He generally does follow his 80:20 distribution when you look at workout intent percentage and not time in zone. Just a few notes: The last 7 days he has done 1 session which would be characterized as intensity (zwift racing) and has done 3 zone 2 and below with one of those being over 3 hours. I find that his most recent ride is extremely interesting as he rode 90 mins with an average power of 178w and average heartrate of 101 (zone 1 per his strava settings). His heartrate graph looked like a flat line practically. His 3 hour ride had 5 spikes of 300+ watts but other wise was very consistent around 200w. His average power was 209w and his average heartrate was 118. this heartrate stayed mostly flat until around 2 hour mark and then rose slowly (decoupled) while his power profile remained the same the entire ride.

Three thoughtsā€¦

Strava research is fun when notable athletes donā€™t hide their data

I would love to have those sort of numbers.

80:20 may not be for everyone but it is most definitely not a lie.

HR is individual, so I ignore the 101bpm part.

You too can have zero decoupling on 2-3+ hours rides. I read Frielā€™s book in 2016 and figured this out early on, well before Seiler came onto the scene.

I agree that it is individual, but when looking at his other rides, it does confirm that he is sustaining a respectable effort for 90 minutes while in HIS zone 1 heartrate.

For me personally I need to do more work in upper zones since I have ignored them for too long and am trying to be a cyclocross racer, but I have always had a huge base engine and love to do group rides where my rpe is obviously much lower than those around me past hour 2. It makes big ride days so much more fun. Pretty sure you know that though.

Iā€™d suggest to stop looking at zone alignment. I can do 90 minutes at 90% and flat heart rate :man_shrugging: I remember when Seiler was suggesting some uses for decoupling that didnā€™t pan out.

The basic idea is to have stable physiology (power and heart rate and breathing) for a long time, at least as long as your target events.

His resting heart rate is 36 bpm, which he has mentioned in at least one of his YouTube videos. He has also mentioned his max but can not recall what it was. Think it must be video where he is talking about heart rate reserve and relative effort.

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Versus Seiler my resting is +24bpm and guess what, my HR at ~210W is about +24bpm.

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Iā€™ve posted a test or two, where I rode the entire time at 60% ftp. Itā€™s clear my HR slowly increases during the first 20-25 minutes, and then flattens out. So I toss out the first 30 minutes and then look at decoupling. You can set the amount of time to exclude during warmup and cooldown in the Intervals settings.

Yeah I see a lot of negative decoupling on steady rides and simply call it zero decoupling. Recently set some all-time power PRs from 17 to 20+ minutes after 900kJ work. Generally in my rides I seem to get stronger the longer the warmup, say after 40 minutes.

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Is this aerobic decoupling top trumps? A 2.5 hour outing.

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Is this where we discuss our decoupling limits for February 2023?

This is from a 3:20 ride at 0.72 IF, or 3.6 w/kg

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This is from a 4:15 ride at the same IF and w/kg three days later

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Clearly my limit is somewhere in the 3.5-4 hour range right now :roll_eyes:

Orā€¦things change every day and maybe I was still recovering from driving 1200 miles in the two days between the two rides :slight_smile:

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Negative splitting my butt-numbing Z2 trainer rides ftw! :blush:

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no but I always love seeing you post EF and what not, was about to call you out so thanks for dropping in #respect

ok, nothing long in the last month except for Saturday without good clean data, but this one from December is pretty close

Roughly 3 hours right now, havenā€™t tried to push it out the past 30 days. How did Intervals estimate 288W at 143bpm?! Thats ridiculous. More like 160-165bpm in the 2nd half of a 20+ minute effort.

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Iā€™ve been trying to push my endurance up as well as out this off-season, which has led to not seeing so many negative splits these days. If I drop down duration to 2-2.5 hours, or IF to 0.65-0.7 I can negative split, or at least level them out

2 hours at 279 watts

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Think Iā€™m probably around my practical ceiling for zone 2 right now - so its only pushing longer, no more up

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This one is 3 hours 35 mins and was a week ago.

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yep, this past month Iā€™ve been pushing endurance up, and pulling ftp up. Going to do some more long rides again this month, before heading to BWR AZ.

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This video is as bad as the normal press. There was already the back and forth argument where they all basically agreed:

Iā€™ve got a 5 hour outing tomorrow, then same in a week, then 3 hour the weekend after that, then a 6.5 hour. Got my first event end of March which will be about 10 hours. I donā€™t tend to go much above 6.5 hours (per ride) in training, but I might do them back to back days later on.

Iā€™m officially big and slow on climbs, so BWR AZ is going to be interesting, maybe 7 or 8 hours. This weekend Iā€™ll do some easy gravel on my Tarmac to get reacquainted with dirt and water crossings. Next weekend there is a nice ~4 hour route with 5000ā€™ of elevation to get reacquainted with climbing.

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