8 Months using TR and FTP trending down. HELP!

Training
41

I think the breaks you describe are perfect. You do not need to spend a week on the couch getting massages to properly recover in order to surpass a 280 watt ftp or 4w/kg. Maybe if you were years in and hadn’t taken any time off the bike at all and were in some mental/physical overtraining cycle, but clearly that’s not the case. I actually strongly disagree with all the people saying you need to take time off and reset or whatever. If you’re still mentally fresh and knocking out all your workouts, there’s no reason to do that.

I suspect you’ve seen a lot of improvements that don’t show up in the ramp test in percentage of threshold you can sustain for durations, repeatability…etc.

It’s more likely IMHO that you simply need to ride more. Low volume and even mid volume will only get you so far. People who have continuous improvements using low volume plans are typically supplementing with lots of z2 outside rides or unstructured outside rides. Time on bike is critical.

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42

There’s no question, when you plateau for an extended period, you need to hit the body with a new stimulus.

What that is exactly, is the art of endurance training.

Once you’re well trained and have been for multiple years, the gains are much harder to come by. This is a function of a million variables.

Personally, I can hold 4-4.2 w/kg with the usual solid work. However, to get it to move beyond that, I need incredibly focused training and a huge increase in volume.

I would say, that for me to reach 5w/kg I’d need to be an actual professional and even then, I don’t think I’d make it at 47y. We all bump up to our upper levels at some point. Some are at 3w/kg others 6w/kg. The work required for your personal final .5w/kg is something like twice as hard, in my experience.

In other words, most will have to be very focused for a very long time to eek out that final potential.

As I’ve recently learned, that last %10 of performance is not worth the %100 increased effort. I’ve found that I do well with a steady training volume, staying pretty fit year round. I only actually train hard for a very short period of the year. Call it 6 weeks.

This bumps me up nicely and doesn’t lead to burn out, as it’s not too long. I do some races in this period, then revert back to maintenance. Occasionally, throwing in a week of intensity for fun.

I don’t do virtually any intervals. I’ve basically never done any on the trainer, even though I do ride a fair bit on the trainer in bad weather.

I get my high intensity in my weekly group rides.

Is this optimal? Probably not. Is it more fun, for me hell yes.

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43

I was going to add this right back at the start of the thread, then deleted it, but it actually seems to echo a lot of comments on here…

I got to just under 4w/kg in my 40’s on a diet of balancing as many hours training as I could with a full time work (100+ days travel pa) and family etc. Fairly fit and doing Alpine GFs etc. Now at 50 and mostly retired, I increased my training volume a LOT a year ago and added huge amounts more z2 work in addition to a winter of SST work and usual group rides for some intensity. End result…pretty much the same FTP by whatever measure I use, BUT significantly improved endurance, TTE and repeatability than I ever had before.

Now obviously as I’m about to turn 51 (with >12 years serious riding) my best chances of improving FTP are probably behind me, and I’m pretty resigned to never seeing any significant upwards change in FTP again, but am very happy and motivated to continually see a positive change in my power-duration curve and see endurance and TTE extend, and franlkly as a non-racer thats really fun. Went out the other day with a regular group of friends and being able to sit on the front at the start of the ride and happily pull them along and then still drop them after 3+ hrs and some hard efforts in the middle is still motivating and an area I keep seeing improvements in.

So consider switching up the stimulus, the power of as much z2 as you can squeeze in, and tracking other elements of your power-duration curve. Have fun.

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44

@DarthShivious great advice
I had hoped that the MV plans that I’ve been doing since 04-01-21 would be the significant change in stress and intensity needed to see an uptick in FTP (unsuccessfully)
After I get done with this 8 week block of Short Power Build MV. I am plan to look into a LV plan with Z2 thrown in. My concern is that I do not have enough time( or won’t sacrifice other things) to develop the Z2 base that would be required to see a change in FTP. I am able to manage about 9-10 hours a week for cycling training and just not sure that will be enough. Only saddle time will tell.

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45

I do look at the power curve regularly but do not often push new numbers in workouts often. Most of my power curve PR’s are done during ramp tests with the exception of short duration ones that are done outdoor rides. I have continued to see new PR’s on occasion.
@wiscokid and @BCrossen I have not done a DEXA scan or anything other than get on the scales a the house to see if its muscle loss or fat. I believe that the majority has been fat just looking in the mirror. I would have to do some serious thinking about trying to gain back the weight in muscle but it is definitely something I will consider.
Currently taking 5-6 days off the bike to do a little reset.

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