45 min Race 102% only 68 TSS? Fried, But No Adaptations! : (

Training
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Hi all,

Deep searched before posting: Nothing similar.

Entered a B Race on my cal on Sat & marked as complete. 45 mins @ race pace. TR nails it as 68 TSS.

[Actually ended up utterly frying myself; did 35 - 40 mins @ 95 - 105% FTP, Zwift race so zero micro-breaks, w sprint finish peak @ 271%.]

Next day was green to ride. No impact at all, and zero adaptations once marked complete. Logged out, back in, multiple times over the next 2 days; nothing.

Barely care now; past. But for future… I really do want the proper TSS tracked, particularly RE: Adaptations for the next 1 - 4 d WOs. I know damn well I started a hole, and I want AT to toss me a rope and help me climb out of it, not jump in with me, pick up a shovel, and help me dig!!! :slight_smile:

So what do we do? I mean… I could lie to TR and manual input an “Outdoor Ride” that never happened, and manipulate it until a guesstimate TSS was achieved, and then delete the race event, and enter a note that it happened… utter slop show, though.

Must be a clean way, right?

[No ride data yet; sync issue from Zwift; our problem, but not rly relevant to the post. No ride data: B Race, Race Pace, 45 mins…absolutely nowhere hear 68. From any reading I could find, sounds like prob 150 - 350… could barely walk next 2 days… yes, idiot move, stupid…pls leave it & focus on the question! TIA!! :slight_smile: ]

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If your IF for the entire 45 minutes was 1.05, your TSS would be 83.
If your IF for the entire 45 minutes was .95, your TSS would be the 68 that it sounds like TR predicted.

3 Likes
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@BrianSpang grabbed a pic to try to help. There’s absolutely no way these two below are even remotely similar in TSS. Unless I just have no clue what “TSS” actually is!! :slight_smile: Which is possible!!

Extra note: Ranked Baird Easy, was very easy, as conf by HR…
The race was the hardest thing I can remember doing on the bike. Also confirmed by recent / last 12 mo PRs in max 20 min, 10 min, 5 min, etc, powers.

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Totally near 68, closer to that than 150 anyway.

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@Bbt67 appreciate your time to reply. Can you take a quick look @ my reply & two pics, just above? No way they’re near equal… right???

Or no, I don’t know what TSS is? [Tone: Legit Q, not confrontational! :slight_smile: I genuinely might not really understand it! Bc there’s no way these two were near equal, to me, in result of how I felt, after.]

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I’ll look, and they could be similar TSS and feel totally different, the time difference is 40 - 50% so which is big, Ill crunch some numbers

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TSS is a measure of both intensity factor and time. 1 hour at threshold (NP=FTP, IF=1.0) is 100. So there’s no way a 45 minute ride is ever going to be 150TSS, only way that’s possible is if your FTP is set way too low. 45 minutes at Threshold should be 75TSS, so 68 is pretty close, as above I’m guessing your NP was at ~95% of FTP (and/or your FTP is set differently in different apps?)

In terms of red or yellow days, 45 minutes at Threshold also isn’t building up a ton of fatigue (assuming FTP is set correctly) - it’s hard but doesn’t take that long to recover from, so not surprising it hasn’t triggered any adaptations. If you linked it to a TR workout that involved riding 45 minutes continuously at close to Threshold (if such a workout exists) then you’d get a Progression Level update, but you won’t get that from a race.

4 Likes
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Search WL2 or Outdoors ride and association or RLGL. Currently outdoor rides not associated with workouts don’t cause adaptions. WL2 will carry out a detailed analysis and adapt your plan as a result. Just released in ‘opt in’ is RLGL which I think is to be a step/part of WL2 and it’ll look at the TSS of rides and adapt down if you need a rest, but you need to opt in.

Red Light Green Light is Available in Early Access! :tada: :tada: :tada::tada: :tada: :tada::tada: :tada: - Announcements - TrainerRoad

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That race effort looks to be around 35 minutes long per the timeline on the bottom? Can you get the Normalized Power & Average Power for just that section of the race before the cool down? And those power values relative to your current FTP would be helpful in framing the deltas between the efforts.

I will say this, there seems no practical way you would hit anything close to 150TSS in 35 minutes of effort unless it was massively over your FTP for the duration.

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38m @ 105% is 70 TSS, looks correct to me. They are equivalent in terms of TSS. Remember the Zwift race is going to feel much hard as its the same TSS in almost half the time (well 40% less)

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Or even without TSS.

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My Zwift race today was 37m19s. AP 225. NP 243. IF 1.01. 66 TSS.

:blush:

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@all, really appreciate the input. FTP was 185 @ time of Baird, up to 195 just recently; AI FTP Det.

The race I added that dotted line right at 199 w. So; most of that time spent damn near that. I was absolutely destroyed.

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@cartsman does a good job of explaining TSS and summarising why the result sometimes isn’t what you would expect, or at least doesnt match up with your expectations for the effort, unless you’ve manually calculated TSS a few times or have a good understanding of it

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@mcneese.chad yes, could prob calc the NP & AP from this graph, right? With that line marked at 199 w ?

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Need the NP, not the averager power.

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  • No, that’s not right:
    (pic not wanting to load, so adding text for now… TR or something is being a pain)

You put that line at the peak of the sprint (or under the text in the legend… neither is right). Your line is well above the 199w value where you spent most of that race. See the actual black line near the legend and where it intersects the power graph. It’s well under your dashed line.

You sure could be destroyed from the effort, but the duration and relative power to your FTP don’t give the elevated TSS that you think it did.

Not really. Best would be a link to a Strava upload for actual analysis. We can guess at best from a picture.

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@mcneese.chad I’m a jesus idiot, bud. I meant to mark power, in a rush marked HR!! Sorry, all. Here. So ya; damn near 190 - 195 = FTP for the whole thing, with surges well, well above.

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Better, but still amounts to a roughly FTP based effort (195w per above) with surges above (that we have no real idea of power level without data) that is well under 1 hour (35-38 mins).

Normalized Power for that precise section would be the most useful data point to related to your RPE and aftermath. Unless those spikes are massive vs your FTP, there is little chance you hit triple digit TSS.

I’d say the values above seem close to my eyes without the actual data for review.

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@HLaB thanks for posting this. Doesn’t make the TSS make sense; but it solves why no adaptations resulted. In the back of my mind, I knew outdoor rides not linked to a WO didn’t cause AT, but my mind erased it, or thought a race would do something, due to the pretty extreme […obviously???..] exertion, well above any WO. But I guess it’s “just an outdoor free ride”, RE: Adaptive Training…

1 Like