I agree. This is 1 of 2 40 minute intervals I’ve worked my way up to. It’s roughly 4.5 minutes at 85% with another .5 minutes at 120%, repeated 8 times. When I started with 2x20/3x15’s my HR would slowly creep up over the duration of the interval.
Same cooling, same everything, but now my HR spikes with power spikes then drops back down to the basically the same level as I start with.
P.S. I think I top at out 96% of FTP for these types of intervals and my HR is finally stable whether it’s 85 or 95%. 95% will yield a higher HR but it’s steady and not slowly increasing…
I know this is Trainerroad and everyone is about power numbers, but would just like to put this here as food for thought.
Hypothetically speaking, if your heart rate rises to 90% of your max heart rate during a sweet spot workout, are you still doing a sweet spot workout or perhaps it is a vo2max workout now?
If this is a persistent trend during your sweet spot workout, does it mean that you are doing vo2max workouts with the volume prescription of sweet spot work? What does it mean for your training load and recovery?
I wouldn’t say everyone is about power numbers…there are loads of people coaching, training, researching, etc with both power and heart rate. They tell different stories and are not data points meant to be better/worse than the other.
To answer your question, I will make an important assumption: The maximum heart rate of the individual is well known.
So if someone is doing a sweet-spot effort and their HR rises to 90% max, then there’s a couple of things not lining up. Depending on the length of the time the individual is at 90% max HR, it’s not necessarily that they’re doing VO2Max “work”. However, if this is consistent in their sweet spot work then I would say they’ve got their FTP set too high.
Sweet spot intervals, particularly longer ones , should be characterized by a steady heart rate that is below the threshold heart rate of the individual. And while there’s various ways to estimate one’s threshold heart rate, an old rule of thumb was your average heart rate from a 20min FTP test effort.
Bottom line is that heart rate is definitely a useful parameter that can help align the work you’re doing (power) with the physiological system producing the intended work.
Anyone doing sweet spot intervals would FEEL like something can’t be right if their HR is rising up to 90% max. Imagine a workout with 110% FTP intervals, and this person would be at max heart rate and way above their limits. This wouldn’t be useful training and certainly not stressing the intended physiological systems.
Yep, pretty sure that is me. The problem is, most TR intervalls are fairly short, and with good anaerobic power (and 5-min power) you can complete them all, but you’re probably working over the designated zone. That doesn’t become apparent until the intervalls go to +10 minutes, because your short power will take you through something that is essentially a long vo2 interval. @arcos makes a good point above, that what will suffer is your recovery. It can take me 2-3 days to recover from a ‘sweetspot’ workout.
(That was my last year’s experience, this time round I’m dropping the intensity on sweetspot and maybe threshold, but keep it on vo2)
This might stating the obvious, but for such longer sub threshold workouts, you should work your way into it. This is not something that you can jump straight into if you have not done something similar recently.
Look into progression of time, while keeping the power the same. Something like 3x10, 3x12, 3x15 and finally 3x20. Not too different from the introduction to Vo2Max workout that Coach Chad mentioned previously.
Dear all , one thing I have noticed is that there is difference in the same workout using the big ring front vs small ring front. Using the small ring front means less interia making the same work out harder. Eclipse for me is a total different workout depending on which ring I use front even being on erg mode. Small ring is RPE higher and HR higher. Currently using a kickr . Check your workout next time using different front rings and bear in mind interia. I wish TR would have a podcast about this as it affects their product they are selling and advise which ring we should use
We’ve talked about this a lot. This is why I use the H2/3. I want the big fly where to make it closer to riding outside.
Jonathan likes the low inertia of rollers or a small ring to mimic the really steep climbs he has MTBing. I argue that he’s going too low, but I’m not smart enough to do the math so we are at an impass.
But his brother is a rocket scientist…I bet he could do it! @Jonathan it could be cool to figure out what the inertia is for a few different weights outside (150, 175, 200) and then see what kinda speed/gearing on popular trainers would match that.
I completely agree. I was really struggling and failing a fair number of workouts the last time I did Sweet Spot Base in the small ring. Then I heard them mention on the podcast that it feels easier in the big ring, so I switched to the big ring and it has made a huge difference! I completed every workout in SSB1 at the same FTP and was generally able to tack on more volume at the end. I’m still on track through SSB2 now with a higher FTP. Thanks for the tip!
Yes, and the “official” names for the trainers are as follows (with the company renaming that took place between the release of the two most recent models) in case people want to search and find specific models.
If you want to use HR, from what I’ve read (Friel’s Training Bible, CTS Time Crunched Training Plan) its worth taking the time to figure out LTHR (lactate threshold heart rate) and use LTHR for calculating HR zones.
For example my LTHR is 92% of HRmax, in other words, if I go out and do a long 40-60 minute effort at FTP my average HR is around 92% of max HR or more appropriately 100% LTHR.
Looking back at shorter 20-35 minute TT-like efforts where I didn’t empty the tank, those have been 89-93% of HRmax or more appropriately 97-101% of LTHR. That puts my vo2max efforts at 102-109% LTHR (above 94% HRmax) in the 165-175bpm range.
Interesting thread. I did the Eclipse yesterday, and my avgHR during minutes 2-20 of the three intervals was 89, 92 and 93 % of my maximum. It felt hard, but not impossible. So my ramp test -based FTP is way too high?
HR is highly individual but this seems high to me (if your HRmax is correct). Drifting against these values at the end of the intervals is ok but as average it seems high for SS (and I guess that means the max at the end is even higher).
Been there, done that. Too high FTP estimate (anaerobic strong) left me suffering through too many workouts shifting the benefit of the workout and cumulating fatigue. Now I set FTP more conservative, nail the SS workouts better and rise intensity for VO2max workouts as needed.
Compare your values to the polarized discussion where one approach for the hard days / VO2max intervals aims at lots of time between 90%-95% HRpeak.
