3x20 SS is no joke

I am sorry for posting in the old thread but I did not want to make a new one when this fits the bill.

I have failed my first workout in TR and it was Galena+1. I have stopped the workout because in the middle of the last interval my HR was 183 ( my max is 190 HR ) and I decided there is no point to continue on this level and I have lowered the workout to the 75% for 2 minutes and then upped to 95% and finished with no problem - so basically my aerobic engine failed - the legs were ok, no burning and unpleasant lactate.

So there are some variables to the workout:

  1. My FTP on ramp test was 249W. I observed a little bit elevated HR during sustained power workouts (like Kaweah) so I have lowered my FTP to 244 for 2 workouts (Geiger +1 and Baird+2). I had no problem with Geiger+1 and HR was in line with power targets. The other one is VO2 max and I have no problems with them at all.

  2. Earlier I have finished Eclipse with FTP 249W - 3x20 90% FTP interval vs 95% in Galena +1 - during the Eclipse my HR was ok (171 HR max at the end of last interval).

  3. I currently have no fan, and any other sort of cooling and during long sustainable efforts it becomes hot :slight_smile: (I have finished SSB1 and SSB2 in the same condition with no problem).

  4. Aerobic Decoupling from the beginning of the first interval to the failure was 4,5% so pretty normal form me.

And the question is - the failure can be the case of too high FTP (probably bloated a little bit by my good top end - I have never had a problem with any VO2 max workouts), inadequate cooling (I just bought the Stanley fan (the similar to lasko which is not available in my country) or simply endurance problem and lack of any base? My suspicion is that with 8-10 minutes brakes between intervals I would be fresh enough to finish the workout but Galena+1 is not about that :slight_smile:

I am new to cycling and training - my first year of both and my FTP have bumped significantly from the start of TR - from 201W to 249W in 12 weeks I currently sit at 3,85 W/kg - so for sure there was no time to build any sort of aerobic base.

I am sorry for question that is probably answered on the forum but I am trying to undertand what is going on - especially I have never had any problem with any workout.

Completely normal, especially if you haven’t done them a lot. Carry on.

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About 80÷ sure I would finish it, leggs were very ok breathing wasn’t rapid like during end of ramp test. I am focused on HR because I have never reached over 180 bpm during the sustainable power so it is something new to me.

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Thank you for your response and for the TR :slight_smile: it is amazing product and community.

I did that today, it was not super fun

How do you know your max heart rate is 190? Is that the highest that you’ve ever recorded? Was that at your absolute, falling off the bike, hyperventilating heart rate? Or could you have gone harder?

Like Nate and others have said, don’t worry about the heart rate part. Work the prescribe percentage of watts and you’ll be fine.

For people new to these longer efforts they’re really hard from a mental perspective. That takes time to get used to. Overtime you’ll see how your body responds and while they won’t get technically easier, you what what to expect.

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190 was the highest recorded and it was the moment when I have almost no breath at all - I could sustain it for about couple of seconds. Like I said - it was the first time for me having this kind of situation during the workout and my first 3x20 min 95%. The shorter intervals (15 min) and 20min at lower intensity were not a problem and my hr was usually in line with prescribed power. Now I know that next time I should continue the workout and do not care about this thing as long as I can finish the workout.

Mentally - I have no problem with suffering, it is almost pleasurable part of training because I know I am pushing my limits a little bit and with suffering feel of accomplishment is a lot better :wink:

Thank you for your response.

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This post talks about doing sweet spot intervals with a heart rate cap. Might be worth a read if you’re interested in another point of view.

“I’ve overtrained for whatever reason and need an endurance block or two” IMHO

I also pay a lot of attention to my heart rate, just as a measurement of my aerobic fitness.

A couple weeks ago doing intervals at high end of sweet spot, I was way up into a threshold zone, high 160s for me. In multiple workouts since in that zone, consistently low 150s through every minute of the work periods.

That’s just to say bad workouts happen, to everyone, and a single failed workout is absolutely nothing to worry about. You probably do have to build out your aerobic base, that’ll happen just by following your plan.

I had to take a few back spins in the last 5 minute stretch of lion rock today, and I actually found it reassuring. I knew I was a bit underfueled, so that being enough to keep me from finishing strong let me know I’m training right on the edge of my abilities.

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yep
When I did Spruce Knob (2x30) earlier this week, 3x20 sounded sweet.

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I don’t think this is the reason. If you are someone who skews fast twitch fibers, long, lower cadence tempo/sweet spot intervals are known to be effective at improving fatigue resistance (lowering VLaMax). For me, if I ride sweet spot at too high an intensity, my cardio gives up (or I put my cardio system under too much stress) before I get to the point of fatiguing my legs. Different approaches work for different riders.

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I think there is something to this. I usually hold about 92 in cadence, even through the sweet spot long runs. Lately I’ve started to decide on a lower cadence for one of the stretches, just to give myself some rest but also to put some variables into my “mind game”. Mentally I can think: yeah, that’s like taking on this-or-that hill, a long one, when I tend to go down to 85 in cadence, so I do that. Just to put my legs to work more I might even drop down to 80, but I have a hard time holding such a low cadence. It drifts back up.

Nothing intelligent to add here. It is just that I am about to do Juneau -1 (SSB2MV). I had considered changing it to plain Juneau but decided against it. I want to compare my notes with last year, where I wrote “Boring, had to stop after an hour to look for some entertainment.”

I don’t pay much attention to HR during a workout. I will go back and look at it afterwards and compare with last year. It is rewarding to see that I have a 10% increase in NP with the same, or usually lower, HR. That’s not bad for a soon 67-year-old.

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Fatigue is the key part - if they are at the end of a training week your HR will be higher. FWIW my max is 179bpm and SS is usually 145-160bpm. In a 25 mile tt I am usually 162-171bpm and in a 50mile tt which is a SS effort 145-155bpm. So anything peaking around Max - 20-25bpm is OK especially if fatigued in my opinion

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Thank you all for your time and your responses. I had a hard night because I was dreaming about this workout :slight_smile: I have analyzed every parameter of the workout and beside hr nothing was off the chart - pwr/HR, decoupling, cadence, nutrition etc and most important thing for me that in terms of legs the workout was not heavy at all. I am not over trained because I am following LV with no additional rides outside. I have a fan now so I will give a try custom 1h 2x20 galena on Monday with first two intervals - because the lack of cooling is only variable I have not covered and if legs were ok I suppose I could simply cooked inside my body. I think that working without a fan on SSBI and SSB2 was possible because a much lower power generated during the workouts hence less heat.

Get a fan!!!

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He just got one (post right above yours.

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Ah, I see that now, awesome. :grin:

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Posted early - and just finished Tray Mountain +3 - 4x20mins@90% FTP - HR 147-154bpm for the intervals - had to focus but with a max of 179bpm all under control - I think my FTP is set correctly based on the feel of today - although with Fang Mountain+2 yesterday only reached 164bpm - I would have expected higher…but big fan blowing in my face - can’t train inside without one!

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Proper fans are a game changer. I think many people underestimate what massive flow difference there is from a standard circular vs blower style.

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