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I have 105 on one bike and it’s fine. And I have Ultegra Di2 on my other bike and it’s awesome. 6 years of perfect shifting, never dropped a chain and literally the only time I’ve had to adjust it was when I swapped cranksets and the chainline was a fraction different.
The 105 on the other hand needs a reasonable amount of tuning and maintenance and it’s still often less than perfect. Not bad, just not perfect. Pretty much spot on when set up properly. But the performance degrades over time as cables stretch, dirt gets into the system, front derailleur gets sticky, bike gets knocked around a bit, etc. Nothing major, maybe means the occasional missed shift or double shift, maybe a little bit of chain rub. I’m a reasonable mechanic and can sort it all out (often just needs a turn or 2 of the barrel adjuster). Is nice having one bike that just works though (as long as I remember to charge it occasionally…). And friends with mechanical shifting who are totally reliant on their LBS for all servicing needs apart from maybe changing a tyre will often have months of noisy drive chains or worse between services.
The affordable bike is dead… for now.
Soon enough prices will comeback down… and in the process, some companies will fold.
The first domino was Peloton…
If companies dont adjust to the slowly back to normality reality, there will be more casualties.
I think the next domino will be LBS that were bought by companies the last 2 years. We will see some closures within the next 12 months.
the less expensive Trek is now $1100 with Claris 8 speed (so 20 year old tech)
Maybe I should show the current bike prices to my wife to justify how it was actually smart to spend $6000 on a Tri bike in 2021 with Ultegra Di2 11 speed.
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- That is quite a vague statement and subjective to what a person considers within their budget and requirements for said bike (frame material, drivetrain desires, etc.)
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It may be a lower gear count, but it’s not like the design is total carryover from ages ago. Shifting quality via leverage ratios and related tech have refined that feel to well above that 20 year old comparison. Include other improvements like better brake performance and lighter frames with enhanced ride quality and these new entry-level bikes are far better than what you might compare to with that historic gear count statement.
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I get your overall point, but it’s not like these lower level bikes are some archaic relics dusted off for resale at elevated prices. They are well engineered and refined versions of the past products.
- Maybe, but I wouldn’t count on it. I suspect it’s more likely that prices will remain “stable” and not increase at rates we saw over the last couple of years. There are some big wheels in motion here with respect to the economy, and I don’t think it’s something that is easily predicted or summarized.
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Just wow, in a sad way. Prices are insane. I love cycling, I want a decent but not a top end setup but that is a significant amount of money. Do the marketing folks at manufacturers really believe that the “enthusiast” market which 105 fits into will actually bear that kind of cost? In this community, there is obviously a certain level of commitment to the sport and associated willingness to spend a commensurate level of money, but I can’t see how the general market would.
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The electronic shifting is appealing to me. My 105 on my road bike has required little maintenance over the years other than as you’ve said things like simple barrel turns. To be fair, I do not ride that bike very much but when I was I rarely had issues.
My gravel bike with sram rival is more annoying. That’s where the electronic shifting appeals to me. The sram rival seems to require a lot more adjustment even though I’m running 1x. Of course I ride that bike 99% of the time and it’s gravel so everything gets dirty on it. That’s where I’m interested in sram rival xplr etap given its price point and good reviews
I love triathlon, but I do it on a very small budget. The prices of bikes and other equipment is very concerning. The sport is just not accessible to many people solely due to the cost. I make plenty of money and I will be in the market for a new bike in the next couple years. But I cannot justify the cost at these prices.
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I admit I get my hackles up when I see comments like this so apologies up front, but there is no gran conspiracy from “marketing folks” at bike companies…first, prices are set by management and the sales departments, not marketing. Second, based on current market trends, the answer is unequivocally “yes”.
I’m not any happier than the next guy about the dramatic increase in bike prices, but that is clearly what the market will bear. As long as we (the consumers) keep stepping up to pay those prices, they will stay that way.
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I think this is fair: to an extent. The Madone SLR was never meant to be “an affordable bike”. It is Trek’s flagship racing bike used in the pro peloton. And the $8000 does include the higher end carbon frame, carbon wheels, integrated bar/stem combo, etc. I doubt $8000 is the lowest we will see on bikes with this groupset. But with that being said: $8000 for 105?!
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Pedantics of “who” sets the prices for goods aside, my post is probably rhetorical because if whoever decides the pricing didn’t believe the market the would bear it, then they wouldn’t do it. I still believe that this is overreaching if they base the justification on the past 2-3 years of COVID related growth because there was little else to do, and supply chain issues. My opinion is that I can’t see the sustainability of that price point for the typical 105 demographic. I can see the decline in other COVID-boom areas already. Last 2 years you couldn’t get a tee time for golf for love nor money and club memberships filled up. This year already, tee times are almost back to pre-COVID availability, parking lots are back to 1/2 full in prime time again.
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But it isn’t just based on that…at least not if they are doing their jobs correctly. Over the past 10-15 years, we have seen the costs associated with cycling products rise exponentially. Leaving aside the obvious Assos examples, go look at the increase in price associated with Specialized components (shoes now costing almost $500, etc), the increase in the multitudes of “premium” clothing companies, etc…and bike prices were rising well-ahead of the COVID boom. The market data clearly indicates that there is permission for companies to keep pushing prices up.
And clarifying who sets prices, etc. is not “pedantic”…it provides clarity to the situation and removes tired rhetoric that is inaccurate, IMO.
I think your point is the flip-side to are 105 buyers really going to pay that kind of money for a bike with are Madone SLR demographic buyers really going to want a 105-equipped bike.
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Right.
So I really think Shimano is trying for this:
Elevating it from “groupset of the people” to “groupset of the people…but the people who occasionally enjoy the finer things in life and are somewhat wannabe pro riders”.
And this is by no means to disparage 105. It is a great groupset and the fact it is now Di2 is great. But the best way I can describe it is it seems they are trying to make 105 the new Ultegra, and Ultegra the new Dura-ace 0.5 in terms of consumer perception and more importantly pricing.
The 105 SLR is the cheapest Madone SLR with electronic shifting. And at $8000 its about $800 less than the 2021 model with Ultegra Di2 was priced (and $1000 less than the current Ultegra Di2 version). So, if you value the frame more than the groupset, you can look at it like your getting the new frame with (arguably) the same shifting performance (plus a 12th gear) for 10% less than what you would have paid last year or, your saving $1000 this year.
There are certainly many racers who’d want an SLR frame but would rather put that $1000 saved going 105 vs Ultegra towards wheels.
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The electronification of groupsets is moving price point buyers down a rung or two or forcing them to move up if they still want “top of the line”.
I used to be a top of the line buyer. It was always Campagnolo Record or Super Record. Then Campagnolo came out with $5000 electronic groups and I said, F-it, I’ll take a $1000 Chorus mechanical groupset.
I can afford a top group set but I just can’t force myself to part with $5k because I don’t believe in the value and I no longer care about bling and labels.
105 di2 snares what used to be the Ultegra mechanical buyer and parks them a notch up in the price ladder. Many will feel good about it as they now have di2. Some will still bemone the lack of a quality, working mans, $600 mechanical groupset like Ultegra used to be.
We also seem to be going into a recession and currently experiencing a stock market crash. That will do something to the pocket books and/or the mentality of high end bike buyers.
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In terms of cost, a much bigger deal here with the new 105 Di2 is that Shimano has conformed 105 to the Ultegra/Dura Ace 12 speed wireless form. That means any older (even last year’s) Di2 is not compatible and there is no cheap update path to the current versions.
I think the current 105 Di2 sounds great but as an 11 speed Ultegra 8070 Di2 user, I would have preferred they had really cheaped out and just put the 105 logos on last year’s Ultegra Di2 parts so I didn’t have to get a whole new group set if I want to upgrade or I break something a few years from now …
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This pretty much sums it up. I don’t fault the bike companies for pricing bikes the way they have when consumers are buying faster than they can be produced and there have been 6+ months backlogs. That’s simple supply and demand, it’s not the same as home depot doubling the price of generators during a hurricane. Nobody needs a high end bike.
You can already see the dynamic changing as supply is catching up while demand is dropping. I don’t think you’ll see list prices dropping any time soon, but discounts will start once bikes start sitting in LBS showrooms gathering dust.
The biggest near term drop we will see is the used bike market. Used pricing has been crazy because many new bikes can’t be bought at any price without waiting multiple months and people suck at waiting. I have a 2020 Domane SL7 AXS that I bought for $5300 back in 2020 just as things were getting really nuts. I think it retailed for around $6,200 back then. That exact same bike retails for $7149 today (less than 2 years later), but backordered so you can’t get one quickly. As of last week, that same bike was listed on pros closet used for $6999 and it had previously repaired carbon damage. It’s off their site now and I have no idea what someone paid for it, but that’s stupid pricing even if it sold for $6k. BTW, I’m about to sell the Domane and I’d be happy to get $4k for it (but I swapped out the carbon wheels for aluminum). Pro’s closet only offered me $3k for it and I’ve heard from others that Pro’s closet has so much used inventory right now that they aren’t even making offers on many bikes. Market adjustments are coming quickly.
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Same here. I used to spring for SRAM Red back in the 10 speed days when there was a noticeable different in shifting performance between the levels. While I skipped the first Dura Ace Di2 to let them shake the issues out, I jumped to electronic once they released the next gen in Ultregra. I have not purchased a bike or groupset since that wasn’t electronic, so I’m a fan. I don’t care about saving a couple hundred grams and I don’t care about the bling factor. If you gave me a choice between SRAM Rival AXS for $1000 vs. SRAM red mechanical for $500, I’d go with Rival all day long. I’d actually upgrade to a Force carbon crank because the Rival crank only supports 1-sided powermeter, but electronic shifting is a must.
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Yeah, I was happy when I read the announcement … until I noticed the MSRP.
The other missing piece is that 105 doesn’t come with a native power meter option. At that price point, I think not having an optional Shimano power meter is unforgivable.
I think that reminds me of the situation with mountain bikes. For many years, you’d get a mostly XT/SLX mix on a 1,000 € hardtail and when I bought a fully 10 years ago, I got a full XT build (sans crank) for 2,300 €. Now bikes that are a lot more expensive come with SLX. Yes, inflation is a thing, but even compensating for that, groupsets have moved up. With mountain bikes, there are less compromises, too. Deore is a very capable groupset: 12 speeds, complete compatibility with higher-end groupsets, etc.
However, a lot of it is psychological: if you have gotten used to buying XT/Ultegra, you don’t want to “go down”. Just like you don’t want to “go down” from a VW Golf to a VW Polo. And just like with cars that have gotten bigger and bigger with every generation, people are being pulled upmarket.
Yup, and I think a lot of customers feel that way. Which is why SRAM’s and Shimano’s move to abandon their mechanical high-end groupsets makes sense. And I agree with you: electronic shifting is a really nice to have. Being able to trim my drive train on the fly is amazing. Having consistent shifts with little force is great (especially on a road bike).
I understand the rationale, especially as front ends are becoming more integrated. I’m really curious as to how campy responds - from what I can see the spacing between campy and shimano 12 speed cassettes is so close as to not be worth a damn, so I’m hoping there’s a window for campy to pick up those riders - like me - who’re attached to their mechanical set ups. Me, I’ve just picked up an r8000 group at an absolute steal…so maybe next time.