Just called a LBS to get an estimate to upgrade my Emonda from mechanical Ultegra to Di2 Ultegra and she said it will be much easier to source parts for the new Di2 105 since that is essentially replacing Ultegra and Di2 Ultegra is “going away”.
99% sure this is misinformation but is there any semblance to truth on this??
You should be able to get 11 or 12 speed Ultegra Di2…that makes no sense.
Not likely at all…and is available as we speak at Excel Sports, among other places.
https://www.excelsports.com/shimano-ultegra-r8100-di2-12-speed-kit
@Power13 welp, I guess in a few years I’ll be out there rocking my mechanical Sora groupset! LOL.
Nah…again, let’s of options out there.
Which brakeset would you like? 12 options to choose from…
https://www.excelsports.com/category/road-brakes
Microshift Brifters
I’d rock that setup all day long if I was interested in building up a new cable actuated, rim brake bike.
Good to see electronic finally trickling down to 105 (and Rival on the SRAM side). I just bought a gravel bike with Rival AXS and it was a no brainer vs. the builds with mechanical group sets. I assume it will be the same thing with 105 di2 when it starts making it on OEM builds.
I’ve had a bike with Ultegra Di2 for many years and a bike with Force AXS for a couple years and these things just work. Eagle Axs on my MTB for a few years as well and they now have a budget electronic option for MTB as well. I’ll give a slight nod to shimano on shift performance and there are things I like about only having a single “main” battery, but SRAM is the clear winner for me between the 2 companies right now. SRAM gearing options are smarter for most riders and I love the interoperability between everything.
100% I go from ultegra r8000 on my current bike to new 105 di2 on my next bike, whenever that may be.
105 di2 is £1k cheaper than new ultegra di2 and just 300g heavier!
I think this will destroy sales of ultegra bikes, as it should.
Maybe it will be the end of ultegra mechanical, but I think Ultegra di2 will be just fine. I believe we are just seeing the beginning of the end for mechanical groupsets on high end bikes.
~10 years ago, you basically had the 3 different tiers of mechanical groups on oem bikes (at least at the price points we are talking about here). I think that 5 years from now (maybe less) your only option will be 3 tiers of electronic.
Time will tell and I do think it’s a little different dynamic compared to mechanical, but I see the same thing playing out. With all levels of electronic shifting performing pretty much the same, it will be interesting to see if the market finds enough differentiation in the other groupset features to pay a premium for the high end stuff. Weight will always matter to some and you can’t forget the bling/image factor that many cyclist like to pay for. I know lots of folks still buying SRAM Red AXS after Force and Rival AXS were released. I expect you’ll see the same dynamic on the shimano side. Functionally, it’s hard to justify, but people love throwing $'s at their hobbies and some folks want the best/coolest stuff regardless of cost.
Good call. I haven’t really followed what’s been going on with either of those groupsets recently, but Apex used to be a solid budget option back in the day. I’ve never ridden a bike with Tiagra, but I think it was decent also? Seems reasonable that this level is where mechanical might start in the future. I don’t see them pushing electronic down further into these groups, but who knows.
I hadn’t thought this through, but I think/hope you’re right. I’ve only had 105 or better on my bikes, but last time I was shopping for a new road bike (2019) I was already hearing good things about modern Tiagra. I’m going to stick with mechanical for the foreseeable future, and if It’s going to basically be current 105 and better, I’ll be happy.
Wishful thinking on my part, with a bit of consideration to the gap they both created via the push to elec. But considering the trend of the past, where each lower group ends up as a bit of a hand-me-down in design, features and such… I hope that Tiagra in particular will be an heir apparent to the 105 mech.
The mid-level group is dead [105 11s mech], long live the mid-level group [Tiagra 11s mech]!
The writing was on the wall for years and years, with the possible exception of tiny niches, the entire road bike market would move to disc brakes. And disc brake bikes were a substantial portion of the market way before 2019 — what pro teams do ≠ what average customers have.
I have Force eTap AXS, but you can configure the behavior in the SRAM app. You could enforce one button press (no matter how long) = exactly one shift, long press = up to 2 or 3 shifts (don’t remember) and long press = shift for as long as you press the button. I’d be really surprised if SRAM had disabled this feature.
Which is why high-end groupsets still come with a rim brake option. TT and tri bikes are niches of a niche for people who are $$$$ invested into the sport, i. e. the type who opt for at least an Ultegra/Force-level groupset. Plus, you can still get 105-level mechanical groupsets with rim brakes if you want to.
… only if you have been ignoring the market or spent a lot of time on the internet arguing why rim brakes are better. All of this was obvious.
To me this is the most disappointing bit from a customer perspective: if I want 12 speeds (less of an issue with Shimano since they did not really increase their range (yet) and they do not natively support 1x on their drop bar groupsets, but confining 12 speeds to electronic groupsets is a bummer.
Yeah, Tiagra is not as good a deal as Deore is on the mountain bike side. Deore is 12-speed and fully compatible with the higher-end groupsets. Performance is great, too. Tiagra seemed like a crippled groupset: it wasn’t suitable as a (partial) replacement for your aging 10-speed groupset (the pull ratios are AFAIK identical to 11-speed, thanks Shimano!).
I AM SO EXCITED!!!..
…For second-hand 11 speed di2 to be discounted 
From looking at most of the reviews online, it seems like they are keeping mechanical 105. So the progression would be:
105 Mechanical
105 Di2
Ultegra Di2
Dura Ace Di2
Which honestly would make most sense, otherwise most bike out there would start at €4500… oh wait… 
Either way, hopefully the 105 Di2 comes down a little bit closer to Rival in terms of pricing. If they could make it €1500 euro, then I feel like it really could be a fair upgrade.
Guessing that the upgrade kits will be around 1200 euros or such.
RRP only seems to go in one direction (up!), can’t see prices dropping unless or until there is sufficient supply of Shimano parts that retailers have a good amount of stock sitting around and not flying off the shelves. With all the 12 speed Shimano still being so new that seems 12 months or more away. Though I guess it’s also possible that cost of living crunch will mean demand for high end bikes and parts drops and it happens sooner.
How is your performance factor calculated? Just $ divided by weight? I think there may be an error in your spreadsheet if so. Also, as weight goes up that metric would always improve i think. Maybe have a benchmark (like DA) and then see how much money you save vs how much weight it costs…?
I can understand if money is no object or you’re eking out those last performance gains that the weight would be a big deal but I’ve had 105 for years on my road bike and it’s pretty flawless. I may not know what I’m missing never having used ultegra or dura ace but 105 has never been an issue for me.
As much as I prefer shimano the price differences between shimano and sram for electronic shifting is a lot.
This is because the formula is very wrong - it seems the sheet I used is broken. I will work on it when I have a chance. I didn’t even actually look at it until you mentioned this.
New Madones are listed and cheapest configuration with a SLR frame and 105 Di2 is $8000:
That is a lot of money for 105.
Edit:
I recognize that now 105 is Di2 this might force a paradigm shift on how we view Dura-ace/Ultegra/105 and what we think is a good price for a bike with any of those group sets. Among other factors like supply chain/inflation/etc.
