That may be an infringement on TrainerRoad copyrights.
Structured training, periodization, intervals, etc were not invented by TrainerRoad. There is plenty of literature and knowledge available, beginning with the use of Joel Friel and Andy Coggan’s books and the availability of elite coaches to write such plans. And Zwift has access to such coaches and certainly the funds to expand in that direction if they chose to do so. I suspect that they have their eye on their immediate larger opportunities for developing a bike, improving the racing experience, and perhaps even integrating the experience with the bike as Peloton has done with the Bike+.
However, Zwift today already provides structured training. I, personally, evaluated them before renewing my TR subscription last month and determined, at least for my own needs, TR remains significantly better. Some folks, including a team mate on our racing club, have been using Zwift for both training and racing and has seen significant improvements both in his FTP and his e-racing. And I have little doubt that Zwift could put together a comprehensive training program if they choose to do so. So the real question is not if they could do it, but when they want to. This is one of the reasons why Zwift represents a significant potential competitive rival to TrainerRoad.
You’ve lost me fella, especially when in your next paragraph you actually contradicted yourself and made the same point I was making, only in about 300 extra words.
Yeah, not sure there would be much of a case of infringement for making their own proper, well thought out training plans. I mean, unless they completely copied the structure and renamed workouts “Rettit” or “Cantelope” or something.
Infringement is when you actually directly use the works of others in the production of yours IF the work they have produced is protected. [Of course, it would have to be proved in a court of law to determine if it is indeed an infringement].
Yes I did. Perhaps in fewer than 300 words , what I was trying to say that Zwift does not need anything from TR (or even knowledge of TR) to produce something equal to, if not better than, TR if/when they choose to do so.
Zwift and TrainerRoad are the two most popular riding platforms but their purpose is very different. TrainerRoad is not designed for entertainment and it’s not only an indoor product. The whole purpose is to get faster and they use data to further that goal. Zwift can help make you faster but that’s not the goal. Zwift is a platform designed to help you ride your bike indoors. It’s social and entertaining.
The disparate approaches do have some overlap but they actually work quite well together. There’s no reason to choose only one or the other. Zwift offers no planning or long-term analytics while TrainerRoad doesn’t try to be entertaining. Do your planning, get your workouts, and analyze your results with TrainerRoad then spend your time riding in Zwift.
I agree with the conclusion.
I want to get fast. If I want to be entertained i watch a movie.
When I use the bike is for a purpose. Otherwise i would go out and enjoy the outdoors!
There is a basic difference between TR in Zwift that often gets overlooked. TR is a specifically designed app to do structured training programs. Your options are two - do a program or freelance with individual workouts. Those are two great options though. Zwift on the other hand essentially created a world of roads where you can do virtual rides. For many people it is a passable simulation of outdoor riding. Like outdoor roads, what you do on those virtual roads up to you. You can just ride along, you can ride with friends, you can ride with strangers, you can race, you can do structured training of any type you decide to do (but realistically you may need to bring your own plan). This wealth of options is appealing to many people.
If you just want to do structure training, TR is a much better buy since it comes with good plans. If you want to do a bunch of different kind of riding inside, Zwift is a better buy since it gives you way more options. But, you’re on your own as to how to manage those options. Some people love that.
I agree with both @Joelrivera and @STP. At this time (i.e. today), the primary use of TR and Zwift are different. And hence why a TR user may opt to also be a Zwift user (or vice versa) or the TR user may use other forms of entertainment (if that is what they assume Zwift is for).
However, all of this analysis presumes that Zwift chooses not to enter the structured training market and with with full force.
Money/ investment vs platforms ,here say , projecting, acting as if Swift is moving forward and TR will not to continue to develop. Assuming a lot about who even owns TR, market share , suitors etc.
everyone acting as if there is not enough pie.
PAC Man, gaming mentality , win or be destroyed.
Personally no thanks to the Swift platform, I don’t enjoy gaming , my son gets immersed , I don’t ever feel that , it’s lost on me, I don’t get the sense that I’m doing anything but wiggling my fingers. Let’s actually go do something.
With TR I like there is no illusion , your on a trainer , it’s hard , riding with fitness is so much more enjoyable than not having it. I don’t want it sugar coated, I don’t want to pretend I’m racing ,there is a equivalent to shell tossing and banana peel discharging on Swift .
I ride with you Dude , your not 147 lbs. that was your weight in 8 th grade wrestling. Come on.
I know people on Swift that Love it. There are smiling who I’m I to decide , it’s all good. Plenty of pie.
Cycling is growing. People are taking a new interest in fitness. Some will want to go further with there training and find a platform that resonates with them.
I’ve always liked TR, as you might imagine, and when Nate had the courage to speak up on matters of Race, where as so many lay silent, as not to offend , stay neutral, don’t harm the brand, don’t upset The investor mentality , profit first , people of all color second. I knew this was a place for me, even if TR didn’t do anything more than remain a conscientiously concerned company. I’m in.
Other things matter more than investment / money.
This. I think what has gotten lost in the conversation is that Zwift is already in the structured training market, but their current offering is sub-par to TrainerRoad.
If Zwift wanted to upgrade its structured training and be more competitive with TR in this space, they certainly have the capital to do so. However, I doubt that the ROI is there (for Zwift at least) and that they will be focusing their resources on other revenue streams.
Zwift is very much in the structured training market. We can debate the quality of their programs, but they have an extensive library of plans and workouts that are readily accessible to way more users than TR.
Anecdotally, I’d say that a large percentage of their users use the workouts frequently. Based on the number of users with workout screens I see every time I am on Zwift, it is a significant number, if not a majority of users.
Agree with everything you have you said - both paragraphs. What is missing from your 2nd paragraph of analysis, however, is something I discussed earlier, and that is the synergies of structured training and e-racing offerings. And that is, Zwift “may” decide to get into structured training not because they believe that is is a significant business unto itself, but rather a feeder to racing. There are elite coaches that could put together programs for them. Zwift does not need to replicate the entirety of the TR experience (e.g. weekly podcasts, athlete interviews) to be a serious player in the structured training market and thus a serious direct competitor to TR.
Yes. I agree. As I mentioned, I considered switching to Zwift for structured training when my TR subscription ran out in August, but believe that TR remains superior (and hence continued my TR subscription). Perhaps I should rephrase what I have said in response to @gsumida in that Zwift could step it up a notch and think the competitive barriers of TR to Zwift are not that significant (at least for my needs).
Why would a person do this vs. just riding normally? I certainly do a bulk of my riding in Zwift while running a TR workout, but have never gone into workout mode in Zwift to do that (I HAVE done it the other way while doing a Zwift race and capturing that in TR with a free ride workout).
I agree, I just don’t think Zwift cares that much about the Structured training for cyclists market. Maybe there is a link between Zwift training/racing and if they improved their current offerings that it would get more people racing. But that doesn’t generate any additional revenue for Zwift since it’s an all-inclusive payment plan. If they re-structured their subscriptions to create tiered offerings, then yes maybe they care more.
Right now, it sounds like Zwift is focused on increasing their subscription base by lowering the barrier to entry (an integrated hardware/software solution) and by expanding into different sports/activities.
Even with their Zwift Academy training programs they put together with outside coaches there’s really no structure to the plans–there are a limited amount of workouts that you can just do in any order (they do recommend doing them in order) and at any time over a number of weeks with no real guidance.
, what I was trying to say that Zwift does not need anything from TR (or even knowledge of TR) to produce something equal to, if not better than, TR if/when they choose to do so.