With a higher FTP, he just may not need to go anaerobic as much.
Where does he sit and conserve energy? Are the sections where you ride slower than him (other than 2-3 min climbs), and then need to go anaerobic to catch up?
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Anyone care to share a similar critique on a gravel race I did over the weekend? I feel like I spent way too much time anaerobic. The roads were in very poor condition with thick mud, ruts and some ice/packed snow. I started the garmin early, and it looks like the time not moving factored into the average data.
I checked other gravel races from last year and the profiles look very similar.
That’s interesting, as I would have thought XCO races were mostly threshold (70%) with some Sweet Spot (15%), V02 (10%) and Anerobic (5%) thrown in. That’s why I focused on General Build this year. Looks like I was off on my perception of the races.
I was a front pack Cat 2 XC racer in 2018 (10 XC races) with several podium finishes, but I didn’t have a power meter. I expect to turn those 2nd and 3rd place finishes last year into wins this year and I also have a Quarq PM on my bike now. I’ll be curious to see how my power zones end up this year and will post after each race. I may have to move over to Short Power Build for my 2020 XC race training.
I think it depends on where you race. I race in Colorado and our XC races are in the 2 hour’ish range for a Cat 2 racer. See these two races. I actually took 4th in the shorter flatter race (blew up and held on). Not much time in the higher zones actually but I’m also racing in Winter Park at like 9000 feet to start.
I’ve been doing some significant work on sustained climbing, but I guess my point is it really depends on where the race is. In Colorado we don’t have any short course punchy style races. Everything pretty much starts with a 10 minute all out ball buster climb to start the race and then you’re looking at 4-20 minute long climbs throughout the rest of the race.
Shorter Flatter Race
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You’re probably right but when I look at other very strong riders most of their power output emphasis falls in the higher zones. This particular rider is very strong in sustained efforts but not very strong in short punchy efforts. So if we were to do a sustained effort type race like a road race he’d be way further ahead than on the MTB. If we were to compare I’d say that I stand about 50% more than him. Might be due to the fact that I’ve just switched over from a hardtail to full suspension last year. Even though I’m riding a softtail during winter I count that as a hardtail.
You might also be describing fundamental differences in riders. Some guys are more diesel power and can just sustain forever, some athletes are better suited to bursts of power again and again and again. I think to be a complete mtb racer, you need to be good at both. Sharpen your strength and train your limiter, you’ll crush him.
I focused on General Build to make work on my sustained efforts which I know I’m not very strong in doing. Like I’ve stated before I’ve only been riding since very late 2016/early 2017 and 2018 was my first race-season so I’m still learning how/what my body reacts to and is good at but I’m starting to get a hang to it.
I’m sure this will be the last year I’m behind this particular friend but I want to be sure that the training I’m doing will be beneficial. Which I’m sure it will because I’m already feeling a lot stronger in doing sustained efforts and recovering. I have a long way to go still but I’m new to the sport so I’m not stressing. So much…
Definitely tune into this week’s podcast, I have a feeling Jonathan will go into details of his ride at Bonelli. Maybe not a deep dive into the data, but I would think if they can get some more race data to go along with his it might be worth it as a special episode. It would have my interest for sure.
At quick glance - his ride was almost 50% threshold and above, and about 25% active recovery and below.
My primary focus is also MTB. I’ve been paying attention to my zone profiles also a lot since the middle of last season, there’s a few things I’ve noticed:
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As I started racing, my power profiles were essentially either active recovery or below, or very very anaerobic, with some time spend in endurance.
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As I get fitter, I find it easier to keep pressure on the pedals at times where previously I would have been coasting to recover and slowly I’m shifting my average power profile upward.
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Comparing myself to other riders… the riders that beat me in races (meaning they are competition and I have a chance at racing against them, not like me vs pro obviously lol), possibly just due to having better fitness, but the majority of their time is spent at a slight shift towards higher watts than mine. What’s interesting to me is that, it’s not watts I can’t do or haven’t done on TR workouts of similar duration as my races… it’s just they spend more time in those zones than I do.
That’s something I seem to have to actively pay attention to, and the more I learn about my own fitness and how to best express it, the better it gets.
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I’m sorry I’ve missed to reply to your post. It probably does depend heavily on where you’re located. I’m located in the southern part of Sweden so we are usually talking 200-500m of climbing in a whole race. However further up we see more elevation gain and during XCM-races the gain is more like 1000 meters.
Definitely depends on location, my longest climb all of last year (2018) in training and races was about 4:30, lol. And that was only once per lap. Typically Michigan is all punchy with 0:30 - 2:00 climbs, but still averaging about 1,500 ft of climbing for the race. So I bet my power numbers are either low or high, but not much in between. Which is odd thinking about it since it “feels” more like constant steady effort.
Yup. Here’s the course profile from one of my local XC races. I miss the rolling trails of the midwest!
It’s kinda like an uphill time trial followed by a balls out descent. Definitely not like a traditional XC race in terms of power profile.
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Yeah i follow a guy who would definitely fit the bill of an animator, had the fastest bike split at one of my races. Noticed when he did the championship course in ogden Utah his average power went way way down. That course is a point to point with a net elevation gain of about 1000 feet. Think he is also a little bit bigger, those guys with a lot of raw watts can still do really well in those punchy courses like around here.
I’m wondering from this zone distribution perspective if General Build is the way to go. I’m not a strong sustained power rider because we’ll I hate long intervals. I’m much more inclined to performing great when it’s bursts like 30/15s or something of that nature.
So I choose to go with general build hoping to gain some sustained ppwer. The question is if it’s for nothing really. I don’t plan on racing TT’s and even those would probably work pretty decent. But lack of motivation kills the long 20 min++ intervals för me indoors. What would you do?
I would think working on a weakness is not exactly a bad thing. There are plenty of microburst / AC style workouts in General build, just not as many as in short power. I’ve always been an endurance guy with decent abilities close to FTP, but have started to get a respectable power curve in the <= 5 minute range with short power, AND xco specialty
I would do the shorter stuff indoors where you will have higher compliance and take the longer intervals outdoors. You need the on-the-bike training to be good at XC anyway. I did a big block of base training indoors but now that my race season has begun, I will be doing most of my longer work on the bike (unless it’s raining or I’m extremely time crunched, etc.). I have the benefit of mtb trails a mile from my house which makes it easier to get the rides in. Yesterday afternoon as an example I did 60min of 40/20’s (Rundle) and then jumped on the bike for 2x20 sub LT. The 2x20 would have been mentally challenging on the trainer plus I got some good trail time in.
Here are my zones, elevation profile and power output for Bonelli (a notoriously punchy course with steep climbs):
Bonelli Zones
Bonelli Elevation Profile
Bonelli Power Output
And the same for Vail Lake (a course with a more steady profile, punctuated by punchy rollers):
Vail Lake Zones
Vail Lake Elevation Profile
Vail Lake Power Output
You can see that power output and zone distribution is not directly tied to the course. IMO, significant variables are: course profile, pacing, group tactics, current fitness, and freshness.
That said, an end-weighted power profile is very common in XCO racing. That’s why you’ll see our XCO plans focusing on these types of efforts.
That said, you can still race some XCO events with a relatively steady power profile. It really comes down to if you have enough fitness to choose how you pace the race. If you are strong enough that the climbs on the course and the pace of the other racers don’t push you too far past your threshold, then you can “smooth things out” to a certain extent.
When you look at XCM races from top level pros, it is surprising how steady they keep their effort. Granted, they can do that since their threshold is so high and their power-to-weight ratio is so favorable, but it is different than what you see with many amateurs. It’s also worth noting that this “smooth pacing” by pros in XCM events is intentional because they know it is a more sustainable approach than trying to punch max watts out of every turn and on every climb. Those rules change when it is a ~90 minute XCO race though. All bets are off in that case.
The last thing I want to point out is you don’t just want to train for exactly what you anticipate you’ll experience on race day. During the Specialty Phase, specific training is key and should be your focus, but leading up to that, I personally prefer to build a more versatile power profile from which I can specialize later on.
Currently, my ideal build up for XCO racing is SSB > General Build > XCO.
The reasons I would choose General Build for myself right now are:
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The last 3 years of inconsistent training due to injury have me lacking in all areas of my fitness, and I am on a 2 year trajectory for XCO racing. I want to build out my power profile in a more broad sense before getting more specific next year.
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I know I can expect some “sustained” climbing at Nationals, and it is at 9,000’ elevation, so you can train your short power all you want, but if you go over that line too deeply, or too frequently at that elevation, you’ll be out of the race, so a steady approach is key.
I may go for Short Power Build next year, but even then I’ll be concerned about being too much of a “one-trick pony”, understanding I’ll spend the Build and Specialty Phase working on short, hard efforts.
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For comparison, you can see my race numbers from Vail where I raced against @Jonathan This race was brutal for me because I dropped my chain early on the first lap and found myself dead last. I put in a big effort (roughly 115% for 3.5min) on the main fireroad climb and it really crushed me for the rest of the race. At the start of the climb I saw a big group ahead and the idea was to latch on for a bit of a draft so I basically went full gas to get to them, but then I just kept jumping on it to get up to the next rider on the road. I would have been much better off just going threshold and working my way through the pack over a couple laps rather than burring myself like that. There’s really no excuse because I had the power numbers on my head unit, the clear lesson was to stay with your limits, especially when there’s still 75 minutes of racing ahead.
Here’s the fireroad effort:
Here’s the race effort:
Here’s the race distribution:
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I’ll chime in as well with my distribution from Vail. I’m in Cat 2 and frankly my technical and race skills are lacking compared to the Cat 1 folks and it shows. My car has a pretty good engine, but the driver sucks!
I definitely felt like I could have gone harder at the end of the race (although I dropped my bottle after the first lap and tried to conserve a bit of energy during Lap 2).
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