Back to the original post - I did a lot of zone 2 in lockdown - lots of 3 - 4.5 hour rides. I think it helped my endurance but now I’m back at work SS it is - I don’t think the OP sessions are long enough - 90 -120 mins do SS for base. 240+ mins do z2. 6-8 hours/week do SSB. 15 hours plus do polarised. There isn’t much to be gained from 2 hours of zone 2 when your experienced other than maintenance, stress relief and calorie burning…all very valid reasons for a session of course.
Hey tag
The most important part is and that I have just realized is that I probably didn’t train all muscles in my legs equally because of never using the small ring up front.
When I am in the Big Ring in the front I basically only have to tip the pedal at the high point for it to do another revolution, if that makes any sense. In the Small ring, I have to work the full revolution, therefor I think more muscles are involved or at least differently. Last year I only did Big ring like you, and on the flats, it feels very similar and also Power Numbers are similar to my trainer rides. But boy when i had to go uphill I knew pretty quick that this feels totally different than on the trainer. Watts are Watts you can say but when i go uphill this 9% gradient and I am in my lightest gear I pretty much get exactly that same feeling.
Where I life we pretty much have only uphill and some steep gradients, I like to be able to have the same power I have on the flats also uphill
So my idea is to replicate in the training what I will be facing outside and where I like to improve the most. Also if I then do a Zwift race on the flats it feels like cheating 
I now have done already +2 weeks of my long indoor Base Rides all around 2h+, almost all in the small ring front back big combo. And it already feels a lot better and more natural and less wrong so to say.
Let me summarize again
Basically, I hope I will develop underdeveloped muscles from only Big ring indoor training last year. That’s my idea, also one thing is clear doing longer rides will make 1h rides feel really short and that is also something I was interested in, getting used to long indoor sessions. I think that I already did.
The next week will be long 4 maybe 5 2:45h rides I am not sure if I can finish that off. Probably will do a Zwift ride on Sunday if i do it at all.
Yes, I call that “lazy pedaling” and you don’t have to pedal that way. You can use the big ring and pedal around the circle.
1 Like
Yeah i see what you mean. More things to work on 
Pedal Drills right
1 Like
Thanks @Ridill. I’m inching ever closer towards dropping down to the small ring. I’ll just have to accept that it’s going to feel strange for a while. After 4 winters of training indoors, I’m struggling to take the leap and change my setup. My big concern is that if the easy sessions feel harder, then what are the hard sessions going to feel like! Perhaps I’m overthinking things.
My local terrain is also full of ups and downs, with very little in the way of flat roads, so I know that ERG mode in the small ring is going to be more in line with my outdoor riding, so it should be more beneficial. I’ve been riding purely Z2 sessions for the last 8 weeks (4 more weeks planned, then will be adding in some tempo work), and with hindsight, wish I’d made the switch when I started this particular phase.
Just do it - a subtle flick of the brifter (brake /shifter) and you will be done.
I would second what @Captain_Doughnutman says here @Day. Working on the high end sprint stuff can theoretically raise your Vlamax and thus decrease your LT2/FTP point.
Short power is great to have - if that’s the type of riding you do eg. 1hr crits etc. But if you’re a time trialist type of rider, or ride with fast bunches out on the road and need to ride steady high’ish watts then short power might not suite your needs. Comes down to what you want to do with your riding.
VO2 Max workouts:
Empirical Cycling talk a lot about what is and isn’t VO2Max workout, and they include lots of references. Does that make them accurate, not sure. But they at least are trying to define what VO2Max workout ought to be like.
My summation of their podcasts are:
They should be done at high cadence, 110+, that in itself raises your HR.
They are extremely uncomfortable.
Typically it takes 90 secs to get up to VO2Max, and it is only the period from here on that makes a difference.
How do you know you are at or close to VO2Max, your breathing is as deep as you can get it, by 90 secs you are breathing rapidly, in my case within another 30secs I feel a subtle switch in my breathing, almost panting, from then on I am hanging in there, trying to keep my leg cadence at 110ish, but as the seconds go by it gets harder. Apparently ones HR will probably stabilise at this time, at about 95% Max, but I don’t even care to check it out. I’ve survived the 1st 3min interval. The next interval is survivable, the 3rd, 4th and 5th, get increasingly difficult to complete, just trying to accumulate as many seconds at this level of discomfort as I can.
I’ve used 130 and 120% FTP at 110 cadence to build up to the level of discomfort required, but it is cadence and most importantly breathing, not FTP from then on that I care about.
Note, this high cadence is only for training not your events.
4 Likes
I know what you mean, I think during Zone 2 it is perfect to do this. I just recommend starting the Session like this. You can always say you do the first half in the small ring and then move to the big ring. You still will benefit and mentally it will be something to look forward to. But I bet you will get to the point where you say I can/like to finish it also in the small ring because you got used to it.
Also the days you do use the big ring for one of your later harder sessions it will be like you have a extra gear so to speak
I am also sure the big ring will always feel better easier for me , and it is not like we are not allowed to ride in it, it is just that we can’t always use it. And one of my limiters is the small ring feeling and not the big one. So dedicating a few weeks to this seems like a no-brainer especially knowing how fast gains can come if you training something you may did neglected in the past.
And yeah for comparison reason I will to my Ramp test the same way I always did. if Necessary i will adjust my ftp down but i will not test different
A good summation of the sensations. I echo this.
One other thing I notice is some fatigue in the upper body when performing good (or at least what feels like good) VO2 max intervals. Maybe this is lactate making its way around the body or it’s just from a really engaged upper body trying to make the watts. Either way, I don’t feel this sensation on threshold or lower wattage intervals, just VO2 max and above.
What if we turn this thread on it’s head and go the reverse periodization approach for the base/winter season, keep time in Z2 relatively low, and focus more on intensity. Then, add in volume via long Z2/Z2+ rides as the weather warms and daylight is less fleeting?
As I map out my winter season (Nov–March) dreaming of long rides on the trainer, I’m quickly reminded that 2 hours is the longest I can bear, and that’s no more than 2 sessions per week. Unless I’m strictly following a Sweet Spot Base plan, my CTL will go nowhere if the bulk of those hours are Z2.
If you live in a warm state ignore everything I just said and linearize like you probably had planned. However, for those of us who live in states and countries where there’s snow, ice, and sub-zero temps, maybe save all the Z2 work for when you can get in 3-5 hour rides and of course if you need it between hard days.
Now, I’m not saying avoid all Z2 and smash TR Build Plans over and over again until you can go outside in shorts, but what I am saying is that maybe the Sweet Spot Base approach really is effective in the winter months for those of us stuck on trainers.
Something to think about
3 Likes
I’m doing something like that.
6 rides a week
3 90 minute zone 2 rides
3 sweet spot rides with 90 minutes TiZ.
2 Likes
I’m stuck on the trainer at the moment due to some pretty severe Covid-19 restrictions in my city (can only be outside for 2hrs and within 5km from home - I live near main roads everywhere so it has killed my outside cycling). So I guess in a way, it sort of resembles the winter that you guys are about to go in. I have built up my trainer mental toughness over the past two months. A one hour ride was brutal for me mentally! But now I can easily do 3hr 60-70% FTP Endurance ride on the trainer 2-3 times a week. It doesn’t compare to the 4-7hr Zone 2 rides outside that I am used to, but for now it has to do until our restrictions ease. I also do these rides fasted too so there is that added benefit.
So my week looks similar to this:
MON - 2hr Endurance ride / pretty much a recovery ride
TUE - Day off
WED - 2hr VO2/Tempo or Threshold/Tempo session depending on which block I am in.
THU - 3hr Endruance ride @ 60-70% FTP
FRI - 2hr VO2/Tempo or Threshold/Tempo session depending on which block I am in.
SAT - 3hr Endurance ride @ 60-70% FTP
SUN - 2hr SweetSpot or Threshold/Tempo session depending on which block I am in.
Averaging around 13-14hrs a week. All rides completed first up in the morning around 4:30 - 5am start. Most fasted except the harder sessions where I have a bite to eat before hand.
Have I improved outside? No idea. Haven’t been outside for a while but restrictions are due to ease this weekend so once they ease I am outtttttttttaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa the garage and straight to the local loop to reclaim bulk local legend status’s 
One thing I will note though is that over the past 8 weeks with around 8/9hrs of dedicated Z2 work a week, the vascularization on my legs has increased. I can now see veins and what not where I once did not see anything like that. Seems to be correlated, I think.
Also, my % fat has definitely decreased. I am struggling to hold on to 72kg at the moment - I don’t really want to drop lower than that and am finding that I need to eat more at the moment.
I also find that riding without the mini breaks in the pedal cycle (and coffee stop where I buy a lot more croissant’s and lattes than I should) and the constant pressure on the pedals, my 3hr Z2 workout feels like 4-5hrs outside!
4 Likes