The Thunderburts are way undersized and the traction is very weak. I test rode them on Leadville and swapped out after one day. They are fast on smooth gravel but otherwise were way too sketchy for my skills.
Race (red stripe tan wall 2.4")
The Rick is similar to the Aspen in the fact that grip is largely based on tire pressure. I’m 175lbs kitted up on a 25lb Epic Evo and I ran 18psi / 20psi front/rear and I felt that it had great traction. The corner lugs are similar to the Rekon Race. The tire carcass is heavier also (700+ grams) which helps run lower pressure without the tire squirming or folding in the corners.
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After testing the Rick and the Python Race against each other last Tuesday, I rode a loop on one of my favorite trails yesterday (about 20 miles, including 600 meters of elevation gain with some tough climbs), and Strava shows that the Rick is faster on most segments.
That’s why I decided to remove the Python from my bike and continue with the Rick from now on. Even though the Python Race is significantly lighter and has more volume, the difference adds up quite a bit (as predicted by several people) so I made my decision.
The Ricks win.
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I ordered a pair of Ricks in Addix Speed and XC Airliners yesterday.
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And that they’re less durable and more flat prone. I personally wouldn’t consider them for Leadville, but that’s me.
Rick would currently be my close second choice. (Again, pending release of a 2.4" Race King)
I think I’ll run 2.35" Ray/Ralph for Sea Otter though, but pending weather maybe I just go with the Race Kings there too.
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Yeah enough loose climbing on the Sea Otter course that Rick is the bare minimum tread I’d go for. I had a Burt on back a couple of weeks ago and it broke just enough to be annoying. Also sand washes, plus sand in plenty of apexes, and sand falls on the 50S climb, means go fat. For me that/s the widest Ray/Rick Combo, maybe even a Ralph out back. I have the luxury of being almost as local as @Jolyzara , so I still have time to do a couple of tests. Next one will be Ray/Rick, and if I’ve got gas in the tank, swap rick for Ralph and give that a go in some key areas.
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I tried a TB f/r on a ride in Leadville (not during the race) and everything was fine until it wasn’t. The front washed out in a flash on Powerline descent and hit the deck fairly hard. I photographed the section of trail afterward but never quite figured out what happened. I was simply cutting right to left to adjust my line when it happened. Tire washed out to the left and I went fly forward and right.
Regardless, lesson was learned and took the TB off the front…
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Good call, never understood how people like risking their well being for a couple watts. Its so important to have a good gripping tire on the front because unlike the rear if it decides to wash out you have a slim chance of saving it and usually results in pretty nasty crashes, also the front tire has a lot less weight on it compared to the rear so its extra important to have good grip on it and rolling resistance plays a smaller role with the front tire compared to rear
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TB is a good front for gravel, but I have trust issues with it I the front. Rick was pretty competent when I ran it as a front at Fort Ord last fall.
I’ve done the race 4x and have missed the big buckle once when I banged a rear rim coming down powerline and fought a slow leak all the way to twin lakes to swap wheels. I still PR’d the powerline descent that day even with the tire getting soft, saved myself a whopping 30 seconds compared to my typical conservative descent (and then lost a bunch of time messing with the tire). Just dumb, I’ve learned since then.
I don’t even ride inserts anymore. Switching to a 120/120 bike was part of that, but my experience with inserts was never good. When I bang a rim with an insert, it seems like the foam insert would slice from the pinch like a tube would. So, maybe offers some protection but I question how much. Not worth the hassle for me anymore.
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Recently Silca started saying to add 50% more sealant when using inserts. I always wondered why when i popped my bead when running inserts there was so little sealant sploshing around. There was a lot ofnspeculation in threads over the years about inserts absorbing sealant, but in reality there is a lot of it probably just coating them.
Regardless I ran my XC bike without inserts last year and had good success avoiding flats. This year I’ll do the same and will be using the new Silca sealant as my go to. Curious if it holds up as well long term as they say it will.
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With an insert, it makes it harder for the sealant to get to a hole closer to the bead. Just shaking the tire doesn’t work very well. I had to lay my wheel on the side to get the sealant to a hole at the bead. So yeah, pros and cons to inserts. All-in. I still run on in my rear wheel, and add some extra sealant.
Well, I’ve now washed out and hit the deck one too many times on my Racing Ray/Ralph combo. I think I’m now up to 4 times over the last year or two and I can’t remember even doing it on another set of tires. Fortunately, no damage other than a sore hip this time but it’s definitely in my head and I am cornering like an absolute wuss right now, so they’re out even if it’s just bad luck and not the tires…
I think I’ll just run the Race Kings at Sea Otter and Leadville, but I am now in the market for a true-to-size 2.4 that’s reasonably fast rolling but decent traction. Maybe I’ll get lucky and they’ll release the new Conti at Sea Otter?
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The racekings are more grippy than Ray/ralph combo? I was looking at these setups myself, and i figured the ray/ralph would be more grippy at the expense of rolling resistance.
Peyote is supposed to be pretty grippy and it measures exactly 2.4 on my 30mm rim. 685g too. I haven’t ridden them yet though.
Huh, I had the opposite experience. I used to run Mezcal/Mezcal and had too many washouts. Switched to Ray/Ralph and that completely went away. This year I’m trying Ralph/Rick.
I personally think the race kings are under-rated for traction, and also have better tread than the Ray/Ralph. Just narrower.
Edit on this one for a little more detail. I was riding in Northern Florida near Gainesville the latest time this happened. Lots of sand, dirt, pine needles. Some roots. I don’t think I even saw a rock though. The guy I was riding with spends almost all his time on these trails and has tried the Ray/Ralph there and doesn’t like them and had traction issues, but loves the Race Kings and they’re his go-to tire there. YMMV.
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The Ralph there are a number of comments in this thread if you go back about others not being a fan of the traction. I lost the rear going pretty easy over the summer in a scenario that I still don’t think I should have. But I’ve now lost the front (Ray) too many times too to be confident in it.
Wow… I washed out more with the race kings than I did with the ricks F/R and with the ray/ricks I’m on rails. I would definitely consider the 2.4 RK if it’s ever released but for now the magic combo for me is the ray/rick combo with 15psi front and 17 psi rear.
