Why does the tubeless industry hate me (rant & advice)?

I don’t use tubeless and don’t particularly want it. My experience with it is spending 45 minutes at the sidea of the road watching other people with punctures in tubless tires make a sticky mess of everything and then end up sticking a tube in the tire - on multiple occassions.

I recently had to replace my wheels. I had to buy “Tubeless Ready” … because apparently nothing else exists anymore :person_shrugging:

I bought the same wheel I had before - Fulcrum 5DBs.

It took me 45 minutes to get my GP5000’s (folding clincher version) onto the new wheels. That breaks down as: 1 minute to get them off my old wheels and 44 minutes of hell and youtube videos to get them onto my new wheels.

I did wonder if I would be able to do this on the roadside :thinking:

Anyhow, I got to find out today that, no, you can NOT get them off roadside. I had to call a cab home … for a puncture … first time ever. The tire was on so tight I couldn’t even get a flathead screwdriver in the gap (yep, it came to that - gave up on the tire levers).

Maybe tubeless is great for some people - I find it more straight forward to just replace a tube and I don’t think tire and wheel manufacturers should punish me for that.

And it seriously annoys me that wheel manufactures could not be bothered to talk to tire manufactures to ensure these two products actually work together. It’s a really crappy consumer experience.

Rant over.

More serious question - I need to replace my tires. I can’t be calling a cab eveytime I get a puncture (which hasn’t happened in years until today, but still).

How can I find out which tires are actually going to go over the rim of the wheel comfortably - before I buy them?

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I’ve always found GP5000s very tough to get on first time around but they do loosen up after a few months use making roadside repairs much easier. You might find that this is the case in time? Given the challenges it might be worth giving tubeless a go - if it prevents you having to switch out a tire even 50% of the time that’s a big benefit…

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They’ve been on there for a good 9 months or so

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The number one challenge with tubeless is that some rim and tyre combinations don’t play nicely together. And there isn’t a viable way to establish that without buying a tyre and trying.

The GP5000TL seems to get more angst than many as a tough tyre to fit (definitely in my experience), the GP5000S TR has gone a long way to address that (I recently fitted to a Rival Rapide with just thumbs, didn’t even need a lever. That’s fairly rare for me with standard clinchers!). The Michelin Power also has a good rep for being an easier fitting tyre.

The other point of tubeless is not to take the tyre off. A combination of Dynaplugs and good sealant will fix most things at the side of the road, I’ve not carried a spare tube on my tubeless bikes for a few years now. My worse experience has been having to use 2 plugs in a hole on my gravel tyre, that was a big hole though.

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Thankfully I can do almost all of my tubeless tire/wheel combos without any tools at all

I found the same when changing from a 5000TL to 5000S TR, i broke my wrists a few years ago and id always “hoped” i wouldn’t get a puncture on the old tyres, now since changing them i can do them without tools if needed, just a rag to get more purchase on the rubber.

I have bad arthritis in both thumb joints (22 years of beating on patients in a physical therapy setting). I love GP 4/5k’s, but had the same problem mounting/removing the TL’s. I found a combination of Silca’s tire levers (super thin metal material) for getting under the bead, plus Schwalbe’s levers (sort of a clothes pin function to hold the tire on for that last 10 inches or so of struggle makes the task doable

I find the schwalbe pro ones to have some decent stretch to them. Never had a problem getting them on.

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I have come to think that the difficulty in getting tires on the the newer rims is directly proportional to the increase in internal rim width along with the increase in rim side wall thickness (for carbon strength) at the rim tire interface - the geometry of the distance between each tire bead . This is why insuring the tire beads are down into the rim valley and stretched to the max improve the final part of getting the tire to mount. Also finishing at the valve stem helps a lot. I run 25mm GP5000’s on Campy WTO’s.
On a side note, I haven’t flatted in a couple of years, that is until I put in some tubolito’s Friday and then pinch flatted on Sunday. The tubo’s feel much better than reg tubes, but that because they are so thin. Thus prone to pinch flats, I think.

As everyone mentioned above. 5000S TR exist for this exact reason now. When the 5000 TL’s first came out we had such a hard time mounting them that we just quit carrying them. We would literally have to cut them off some peoples wheels. We did a few shop rescue ubers with folks that had the 5000 TL’s and got a flat out on a ride. The 5000S TR are much better and can be rolled on by hand.

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Seems like some of you guys didn’t read what he posted:

He’s not using 5000TL. He’s not running tubeless.

His complaint is that his pre mounted 5000 tires didn’t mount up on Tubeless Ready rims, and then he couldn’t get them off.

@trebor I’ve had difficulty mounting 5000s on TLR rims as well (all of mine are TLR now) but it varies rim to rim. Never had any issues mounting on my HED Jet 60s, but they can be a real bear on my Roval CL50s. Some rims are just harder to work with than others… meanwhile the Flo 30 Alloys will take just about any tire almost too easily.

Even with premounted tires, I warm them before mounting. Usually just out in the afternoon sun, but on the metal hood of the car or even on the dashboard inside on a sunny day works well. Some people use the oven… never liked that. Makes mounting even brand new 5000s on any of my rims much easier.

I don’t know that the problem is Tubeless Ready rims in general. I’ve never had the problem you described with GP5000s on either of the TLR rims I have run them on. It is probably specific to those Fulcrum rims combined with the 5000s.

I’d recommend trying a different tire in combination. Perhaps Pirelli PZero race or Schwalbe Pro One, both of which Ive found easier to fit (albeit tubeless versions) than the GP5000.

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No where in this thread before your post did he state which version he is using. He just says 5000’s. He notes that he had to get TLR wheels but did not say whether he was running the 5000TL or the 5000 S TR.

Just because he is running with Tubes does not mean he didn’t end up with the 5000TL if that is what was available.

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Fair point. I just assumed he knew the difference, which hopefully he does.

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5000 S TR was only released in October 2021 and he said he had them on the other wheels for about 9 months. The 5000 TL might have been the only tire to chose from at the time he bought them. That availability might be negatively impacting his opinion of tubeless if that is what he has. I know my dad couldn’t mount the TLs so he gave them to me.

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Just based on what he said about the ease of mounting and dismounting on another rim, I doubt it’s the TL, but you are correct he didn’t specify.

I’ve had no issues getting the older 5000s all year.

Why did we assume he was running 5000 TL?? Really easy…Work at a shop or own a pair of those tires and the words “struggle to install or remove” go hand in hand with 5000 TL. Yes there is caveats to all but the 5000 TL are notoriously so hard to install and remove that you can see it in every comment in this thread. So much to the point that they addressed the issue with the release of the newer 5000 TR.

Right, but he also indicated no issue with a previous rim. I’ve had issues with regular 5000s on my Rovals. They’re tough but doable. I think assuming it’s the TL version is as wrong as me just assuming it wasn’t.

OP here. For clarity I’m running the non-tubeless/clincher versions of the gp5000.

The GP5000 folding clincher.

I’ve updated the original post to include that.

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Thanks for clarifying.

As I mentioned, I’ve had more difficulty with the GP5000 on my Rovals than I did on my HEDs. I think some rims and tires just interact differently, so it’s possible the Fulcrums just aren’t a good match for GP5000?

That said, I also recall some issues with GP5000 lots in the past, and some complaints that from batch to batch the fit wasn’t consistent. That might be limited to the TLs only.

So I’d suggest trying a Schwalbe Pro One (I’ve had an easier time fitting those to everything) or Pirelli Zero Race (or any other tire you wish) with the Fulcrums and seeing if you have more success. Some tire/rim combos just don’t work very well.

To me, trading 1W of rolling resistance for ease of use is totally worth it, especially in training. I’m about to put Pirelli Cinturatos on my training rims for the offseason. Basically bombproof tubeless tires, almost as slow as Gatorskins. :laughing:

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I’m impressed with the rolling resistance stats on those for the level of puncture resistance!

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