David - I share the exact same concern. I’m 62, FTP of 271. I’m finding Adaptive a bit aggressive (even with “adaptations” after post workout feedback - my body seems to respond way better to 80/20. Thus my curiosity about Instagram post regarding the 74 year old.
I’m nearly 65 with FTP of 230. I like adaptive training and find the adaptations just about right. Having said that, I’ve long felt that my ramp test results might underestimate my FTP since some workouts with long durations at or close to FTP are often easy. Having used adaptive since fairly early in the beta and since I hike and run (although not as frequently as I ride), I’ve decided replace some of the sweet spot workouts with long low intensity workouts (e.g., after a tough run) or V02max workouts. When I do this, I usually add some TSS to the total for the week. Joe Friel’s “Fast After 50” describes the importance of VO2max for folks over 50.
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Kirk,
Based on research of Stephen Seiler and advice of Joe Friel, I’ve switched to TR’s polarized training plan and so far like it better, although it goes against my instinct to ride hard. But their plans are 6 and 8 week experimental plans, which won’t get me through the winter. I’m considering other training options and reading a crack good book on training to better understand and hopefully design my own. The Cycling Physiology & Training Science Guide — High North Performance. The free sample chapter on periodisation is worth a read, even if you don’t buy the book.
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David, i’ve read the sample and it reinforces what ive already read. High North seem very well researched. Tom Bell has just won the British Hill climb championship by a fair margin so the proff is in the pudding as the phrase goes.
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Last year prior to my cross country ride, I did a modified Polar plan with custom endurance workouts of 2 and 3 hr on the trainer in zone 2. Over several months the power increased at the same pulse. This year, I’m giving the standard trainer road SS plans a go, we’ll see how that goes. Age 67, and FTP somewhere below 200 watts
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Tom, Intervals.icu has a chart that compares power at a given % of max HR that’s interesting and might be helpful.
Intervals is free (but donations accepted) and uses your Strava data.)
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what volume level?
I’m on HV, although I’ve only been doing about 4 of the 6 prescribed weekly workouts so far.
I’m not doing TR polarized plan. I have a coach but training intensity distribition is similar to off-the-shelf plans from CTS, FasCat, Velocious, etc. Here is last season:
Off-season in August and then start training in September with events generally February thru May (before it gets too hot).
I use WKO and it estimates % vo2max. My coach has me doing a fair amount of short sprints in conjunction with other work, and because of HR lag that misses or undercounts spikes in oxygen demand, I also like to look at polarized by HR and estimated % VO2 (ignoring WKO accuracy debate):
I highlighted November to illustrate the difference.
The middle intensity was mostly tempo work, some 80% and some 85%. High intensity was sprintervals and threshold.
Really enjoyed this type of training, and it seems to fit well with my physiology… I appear to respond well to frequent small doses of intensity. Recently I took 5 weeks off-season, came back and within a 4 week block my aerobic endurance returned to same level as May when I field tested 264W FTP. However my top end is still not back to 264W, triangulating recent and historic data I would put it around 250W. I’ll be the big six-oh in a few months and have definitely noticed my body / hormonal changes over the last two years.
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Looks like a near perfect polarized mix. I may look into an off-the-shelf pol plan in addition to my TR subscription. From what I’ve read, even under a polarized plan the mix will change to include more intense workouts as you approach a target event. Looks like your plan changed only marginally from Feb. to May? Curious about your coach’s thoughts on that.
I was being coached (FasCat), my goals changed and my coach evolved the plan. The high intensity workouts changed over the course of the season. We never did a true build, however simply by manipulating high intensity workouts he gradually pushed up my vo2max, FTP, and short power to levels not seen since 2017. We did end up just short of 2017 on the long end of the power curve, and I did set some all-time PRs under 5 minutes even though we weren’t doing all that much work on it. For myself it seems 4-5 hours/week of low aerobic (z2/z3) pays big dividends over a long enough time period.
Polarized is not the label I would use. Looks pyramidal to me 
Another example - before hiring a coach I tried the FasCat off-the-shelf 16 weeks of Sweet Spot Base with my adaptations (Spring 2020):
FasCat interpretation of a Sweet Spot Base plan is to build it on a foundation of aerobic endurance, with sweet spot is added in as advanced or high aerobic. Average training over that period was 7.5 hours/week.
And what I did using TR SSB as the foundation for base, over a comparable period of time:
Looks threshold to me. That is from 2018 and includes my adaptations to TR’s plan, but it is clearly different. TR updated plans this year, and to my eyes the new plans are moving to more pyramidal. Average training during this period was 6.5 hours/week. In 2016-2017 I had a lot of newbie gains on a similar distribution but with additional 1 to 1.5 hours/week, but lacked consistency and had to take a lot of time off (lacking ‘durability’ to handle the intensity).
Hope that helps.
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Sweet Spot Training, my N = 1. After doing a cross country ride this summer, averaging > 1000 TSS/week, I figured I would have gained some fitness. Came back to my usual group rides where I can usually hang on, to find myself off the back because of no top end at all. Started SSB LV, and as time goes on, I am usually cooked by the third workout of the week, and AT keeps lowering the levels. I don’t plan to continue SSB after this, and will switch to the Polarized plans. Age 67.
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My first TR SSB was Dec 2017 at the big five six and it was the start of a decline in fitness. Reversed that in the last year, my advice is to always be doing intensity. If you train inside then take it out of Erg, or ride in Zwift/RGT/etc and intervals just like outside.
The problem with AT from what I have seen is it just plays with the progression level and doesnt change the workout type.
Sweet Spot Base Mid volume II has in its 5 workouts a week 1 vo2, 2 threshold, a sweet spot and finally a light endurance ride.
Then try and do …Sustained Power build mid volume - 2 VO2, 1 threshold a sweet spot and an endurance ride.
Is it any wonder this is too much?
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I agree that it really is too much, at least in a 7 day cycle. As I was thinking about changing, I sought out recent podcasts with Joe Friel, and he appears to fully endorse a polarized approach for general training (with more intensity as you approach an “A” event.) Here is one recent example, where his son interviews him on Training Peaks Coachcast: Spotify.
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Really interesting podcast with plenty of points to think about - diet, training intensity, polarisation, muscle loss, etc. Thanks for the link!
Thanks for the reference. It’s a good listen. I just built a progression of VO2 Intervals based on the recommendations. 5 intervals with On ranging from 30 sec to 3 min with 90 sec off. (interval length same through each workout) in Workout creator.
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I’m thinking of creating my own workouts as well based on the book by Tom Bell and Emma Wilkins that I referenced earlier. If you’re so inclined, you might consider uploading those workouts to the over 60 team group. I’d be interested in maybe trying them. I’m still on TR’s polarized plan until early December.
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Being a little bit of a computer luddite, how do I go about uploading those workouts. I have a whole library of steady state Zone 2 (Seiler zone 1) workouts that I built last year in anticipation of my cross country trip.
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