Which Coach: Kolie Moore, Tim Cusick or Steve Neal?

Yes, but my situation may not be similar enough to yours to be useful.

Basically, training and racing is a problem with only a few variables. We make it more complicated than it is and we look for training secrets. But there are no real secrets at this point.

Your coaches job is to fit the best program for you into the time you have available. The best coaches recognize that training is in service of performance and also help you execute not only the training, but also the racing. The goal is to help you reach your potential as an athlete.

There is little in this journey that you cannot do for yourself. If you take time to become knowledgable and have the motivation.

However, self coaching does have a downside. Humans often have blindspots and we only have the experience that we have gathered. A major benefit to a good coach, or access to multiple good coaches, is she/he/they have likely seen a similar case before. That experience is helpful in obvious ways. Having a second set of eyes to check in with can be very helpful in keeping oneself honest and on track. Having a second set of eyes to help you persevere through difficult spots is helpful. Having a solid person to confer with helps with confidence.

I found myself in a situation where I’d become informed enough to plot out my training. I’d had full time coaching for 5+ years, knew what I responded well to as stimulus, and had become friends with a great guy who I consider a top-tier coach.

When I was looking to see if I could achieve a higher level of performance, I considered hiring the top-tier guy. We sat down for a long chat and he basically said: “You know enough to do all this yourself. I’ll check your planning and we can review progress and problems a few times a year. If you run into problems or have doubts or questions just call me”.

We did that for a couple years and it worked out great for me. I got a little faster and improved my race day routine and execution with his input. Then covid happened and that pretty much ended the experiment as there was no racing.

Summary is that having an expert consultant, as opposed to a full time coach, was effective for me. All of that is very specific to my situation and where I was in my bike racing journey, and the time I could commit to the hobby.

What I can add, trying to be helpful, is that many athletes wonder if there isn’t some untapped potential that they haven’t accessed. It’s very natural to wonder if perhaps working with a top coach might yield another 3, 5, 10 percent of performance. Unfortunately, the answer is unknown without doing the experiment… Maybe? It depends? All very unsatisfying to the individual.

So, if you have the dedication, the time and the money, the best thing to do is not wonder. Just do the experiment. Find a top guy who you like at a personal level, or whom you think will push you as an athlete. Work with your new coach to define specific objectives. Demand that she/he be honest with you and help determine when to stop the experiment. Once the pieces are in place, then fully commit to a good experiment. You’ll know in 2-3 months if you picked the right coach. But you won’t know for a while if the performance gain will come and be durable. I usually say three years. But you’ll know if it’s less or more.

Perhaps worth adding is that the athlete needs to do their part. The coach needs feedback. It is critical to always upload your power file. To always wear your heart rate strap. To always take and enter good notes to the power files. Most plans have weekly or monthly in person check ins (zoom). Take notes, write down questions, provide all relevant info to your coach ahead of time. Most of us reading this are probably on the more info is better spectrum so that might sound funny. But working with athletes and talking to coaches, the number one complaint from coaches is athletes not giving them the data they need to do their jobs.

Hope that helps. Very best luck!

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Racing especially is a problem with many variables, some within and some outside of your control. Training is definitely simpler, but by no means a problem with “only a few variables”. And I consider myself someone who definitely does not overcomplicate matters.

My worst fear is that the main improvement will be via the motivation and increase in load, rather than the type of work.

OTOH

If the periodization and adaptation of the plan leads me to train more and “better”, in a way that I couldn’t have thought myself, it will be well worth the price of a nice bike.

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KM has said over and over that there is no secret training. That clients are often surprised that there are no super secret workouts or intervals.

He said on one podcast that if one does the basics - a periodization of,

endurance - tempo - SS - threshold TTE - VO2max

that they will reach most of their potential.

I think the coaches job is make sure there are no mistakes that derail the training, and keeping the athlete from doing stupid stuff like never resting or never taking easy weeks.

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I’d add to that commitment.

An expensive coach might make you “more committed”, as you’ll listen and follow the instructions carefully. Putting in other words, you’ll go the extra mile, literally hhehee

I have to give a particular option on this, and lots of other careers such as teachers, bosses, managers, etc. It’s usually due to the person’s ability to make people achieve their goals that they differ from the rest, and not the technical knowledge.

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Sure, but the details make the difference, among others:

Block, Linear, Non Linear periodization

Preference for short vs long vo2 efforts

How much tempo/sst, how to calibrate zones.

Every coach has a bias/philosophy/preference and you see that in the structure of the program and workouts.

I think your other hand has it. As long as you get the outcome, I wouldn’t be concerned with the approach. Within reason, of course.

i worked with Steve Neal for ~8 months or so.

I can tell you 100% him and Kolie think pretty differently on some stuff.

I would recommend doing a paid consultation with each and see who you would benefit from. maybe have them program you for a month or something like that… (assuming you have time to spend self coaching and you don’t have something immediately specific. also assuming you’re gonna stick with just one for many months).

talking to someone in a free consult vs paid consult are two different things.

i think in terms of attention given to you, experience, individualization, access to them, bending over backwards to help you, you won’t go wrong either way. from what I’ve seen both are the real deal with those things.

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Sure, but all roads lead to Rome meaning that any number of training philosophies and periodization scheme can result in a fast athlete.

I’m not trying to dissuade you. Go for it.

Steve seems super nice from my few interactions with him. He freely gave me some good advice on another forum. I followed his methods as close as I could (listening to podcasts, and reading what he and others have wrote). I hit my best numbers by doing a tempo build based on his ideas.

If you want the mad scientist approach, go with Steve. Fly up and have him test you on his metabolic cart. Get the Moxy for O2 controlled intervals. Steve may also teach you about respiratory training. Get the Spirotiger and go all in. I do think he does a lot of next level stuff.

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@oldandfast

I would take the same view. If you obtain the desired result with your hard work and your coaches guidance that’s a solid outcome.

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I think that to get to that level of uniqueness in training, you’d have to be with a coach for a while. I don’t think that they are going to look at your training history and have something totally specialized for you as an individual. I could be totally wrong.

I think if you pay for really individual service where they are working with you and communicating with you weekly, then you’ll probably have them come up with your plan and modify it as needed. This is just my guess based on my one and only time I had a coach earlier this year. My coach had me do some stuff that was new to me and I just went with it and it worked out well. This was over 7 months, then I went back on my own. If I would’ve stayed with him, I think he would have learned more about me and would be able to further refine my training based on his perspective and my history of training and time constraints.

No matter which way you go, one thing is for sure. You will learn more than and have more experience than you’ve had before. Good luck!

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I think if you’ve got the means and the desire, go for it. You only live once and one thing is for sure, none of us are getting any younger.

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Steve’s my vote… but as a fellow mad scientist I’m biased… he lives just down the road and we test on the same climb :slight_smile:

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Strangely no one here has recommended @hubcyclist

Probably one of the coaches of all time if you ask me

Hi Old 'n Fast: I have worked with Coach TIm Cusick through his annual basecamp program for four or maybe five years now. It is a group coaching program that equalizes everyone based on FTP. We have Tues and Thurs group sessions and the rest of the week is spelled out by the coaching program. It goes early Nov to early March. If I could hire him for me I would! My next best is the base camp program. Happy to discuss offline elizabeth@egmalloy.com

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Apart from differences in philosophy/preference, isn’t one huge factor differences in goals? Specificity matters and training TTE will be less of a priority in a crit or CX racer than in someone doing hill climb TTs or XC marathon events.

I don’t claim to be a coach, but in my experience (N = 1), nailing sleep and being consistent is far, far more important than sweet spot vs. polarized (I have done both for the past several years) or whether I do 30-30s or long VO2max intervals.

I’m not a coach, but I am a mentor/supervisor at work. I did briefly coach someone on the bike, but it didn’t work out as our styles did not mesh. I would expect that just like in my job, being compatible is the important factor when choosing a coach. That is much more important than training philosophy. You need to trust each other, i. e. when the coach says “back off, don’t do as much” and the athlete should follow the recommendation based on trust. Some athletes might want numbers, others just rough prescriptions. Some want detailed explanations, others just want to be told what to do.

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Who is that?

i am certainly one of the coaches of all time lol

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Excellent write-up! :slight_smile:

Only thing I would add is that I find the nutrition and consistency under emphasised, and connected to that, too much emphasis on the 2891 different methods of training.

I’ve been coached for 3 years now and the biggest boost has been understanding nutrition with a nutritionist, and that the coaching has enabled consistency.

I would look for a coach that:

  • Understands your life stressors, such as work, family
  • The time you actually have to train, that can work around available time and circumstances
  • Can adapt training to goals
  • Takes recovery seriously, and listens to the feedback week over week, month over month etc and can see what works for you
  • Nutrition, nutrition, nutrition!
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Care to elaborate? Thanks!

$900/month

Actually $800/month

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