Thinking about my reply some more, I think your plan is just a bad idea all around. I have the impression you want to benchmark TR’s Base + Build (- Specialty) approach to polarized training. But neither is designed for maximizing FTP. Base might, but Base is just one out of three phases. And one of the main benefits of polarized training is that it raises the tail end of your power curve — also that is not easily detectable with a ramp or 20-minute FTP test. Lastly, I reckon with any sensible structured approach you’ll see improvements.
Personally, I’d just try to improve aspects of your training while maintaining a structured approach as if it were a season. That’s what I did last year and that’s what I am doing now.
For example, if you want to try polarized training, you should find out what a 1-season polarized training plan actually looks like and follow that. @Bbt67 followed a polarized approach with a coach, and he recounted some of his experiences in the Seiler thread and the polarized training thread. He was reluctant to share his training plan, because he wanted to protect the work of his coach, but perhaps he’s willing to share more details if you DM him. One of the things that surprised me was that his coach sprinkled in some Z2 (of 3) workouts every other week.
I think a confusing part for some people (myself included) is that the ramp test is used to estimate FTP. But it doesn’t sound like you care about FTP, you care about the last minute of the ramp test (i.e max aerobic power.) You’ve also indicated you think you are anaerobically inclined, which could mean you are more prone to over performing on the ramp test. Am I correct in thinking that you don’t really care about your FTP directly, you want to raise your MAP to 400w?
I think the confusion is that, if getting your MAP to 400w is the goal, just make that your goal. If you want to reach 300w FTP estimate on the ramp test (which would require approx 400w MAP) but don’t actually care that the number is a semi-accurate estimate of your FTP, it causes confusion. It sounds like you are trying to ‘game’ the ramp test. Which is fine, but for training threshold and below its better to have a semi-accurate FTP estimate.
As I think someone else mentioned, I think it would be worthwhile to do a longer test like the 20min test to get your FTP set. Then use the MAP from a ramp test to set your VO2max interval intensity. That way you are not doing all your SS/threshold work at too high of an intensity but also do VO2max work at a high enough intensity.
All that said, I have some unstated number goals for myself, but I don’t know if they are possible given my time training and riding, age, and genetic factors. I think it is better to lay out a training plan to follow that gives me a path to get to that ‘goal’ but make the actual goals I try to tick off be process focused. There are factors beyond your control that could prevent you from getting to a 400w MAP, so focus on the things under your control that give you the best shot of getting there.
I would really work on following the given plans with more consistency first since you mention that consistency is not the best
if you want to know what training methodology is more optimal you need to do a detraining block followed by a polarized block followed by another detraining block and then a sweetspot block. Otherwise it’s all guesswork
ftp isn’t everything
I would spend the 5 extra hours in the horizontal position resting Bc you can never have too much rest when doing high volume training
Yes. I would like to do it at least a full cycle this year and perhaps 2 to 3 times this year. Currently, I am good.
I concur with you. Base lays the foundation of my fitness. I think that I might do too much time in the sweet spot zone. I think that the Short Power Build will add a decent time in the zone over the sweet spot. But I would like to say that I do not know that such a time and power distribution would benefit my goal this year, i.e. target at 400 MAP using TR ramp test.
I am glad to see this. Would you like to share what you did this year? What was your goal last year? How is this year? What would you like to compare? I am sure there are many people who like to see such a long time experiment at the personal level. I have a similar plan to see what works whatnot. It will take time to see the result, but I think it is fun.
Exactly, I would like to do the baseline as a comparison group this year and I will probably do the POL next season to see how it goes.
I will definitely contact @Bbt67 sometime later this season. I would like to see if I can consistently execute TR plan first before consulting with the expert.
I think you should stop HV immediately and switch to MV. You need consistent training stress and growth over time - not the most you can do now.
And forget short power build. This is a maximal aerobic power test.
SSB 1 MV, eat and sleep well and record your outdoor rides. SusPB MV. Then evaluate consistency and gains and decide to repeat or move to HV and SSB 2.
This imo would be a more reliable and beneficial way to gain on your FTP.
I would caution you against any benchmarking, there are so many caveats here that are impossible to control for. IMHO you shouldn’t go for numbers (unless you are losing a lot of fitness), but what feels better and better suits your schedule.
The biggest improvement was sleep this season. I tried — and failed — last year to improve my sleep schedule. I easily managed MV plans, but I decided to step up to MV+ this season. Sleep is so, so crucial. I have some family matters going on at the moment that cause me to lose some sleep (literally) and my training was immediately impacted. On a MV plan I could make do with 7 hours. Now it is at least 7:30 hours, ideally 8. And the margins are coming down. So I reckon rather than going up in volume, improving sleep will yield better improvements.
On the flip side, my nutrition was better last season — win some, lose some.
IMHO training consistently in a periodized fashion, getting good sleep and eating right will have more impact than what kind of training philosophy (sweet spot vs. polarized) you go for. It seems to me that TR’s plans are packing the same intensity as traditional training plans that have you train longer. So you need enough rest, and if you can’t do that, you’ll probably fail and/or burn out. Polarized plans are equivalent to less “volume” (in terms of TSS, i. e. volume at intensity), but have the added benefit of giving you more low-intensity fitness. However, with Z2 rides you trade intensity for time, so to get an equivalent stimulus to your body, you will probably have to ride longer. So to be honest, I don’t think it is clear that a polarized approach will give you better results. But it may be more sustainable for you because “volume at intensity” is lower. And consistency IMHO wins.
Given my (limited) experience with MV+, which is smack-dab in the middle of MV and HV in terms of TSS, I can’t imagine going on a HV plan. To each additional hour, I’d probably have to add 30 minutes to 1 hour for additional sleep, strength training and the like. That’s not feasible for me — perhaps after I have retired. I’ve seen people criticize TR’s plans who tried HV plans and burnt out. I think few people are capable to do those over an extended period of time. And you need to get all your ducks in a row to do them.
When the dream comes true. I finally made 300 w FTP.
After posting the original post, I finished five SSB HV sections with
pretty good consistency. After that, I customized my own VO2Max workout
section. Eight weeks later, I made my best RAMP test ever.
The biggest change I made this year was to trust myself in making
changes. As you can see, at the end of this September, instead of
continuing with TR’s build, I switch to the old school VO2max plan.
Inspired by @anna_k, the best way to improve the RAMP test result is to
practice the RAMP test. So, I focus on 4~5 minutes IF1.25 type of
interval sessions this October and November. Also inspired by the book
written by Hutchinson (2018) recommended by @anna_k, I added a lot of zone-2
workouts whenever I had time.
I am so happy with the result and I hope it can inspire someone who also
has a similar target.
This year’s plan:
------------------------------------------
Plan start date end date
------------------------------------------
SSB HV-II Feb 15 Mar 27
------------------------------------------
SSB HV-II Mar 29 May 08
------------------------------------------
SPB HV May 10 Jul 03
------------------------------------------
SSB HV-II Jul 05 Aug 14
SSB HV-II Aug 16 Sep 25
------------------------------------------
2021-F-VO2Max Sep 27 Oct 23
2021-F-VO2Max-plus Oct 25 Nov 13
------------------------------------------
