What to do when there's nowhere to hide?

LOL yeah, I tried HTFU but still blowing up. I’m currently upping my meditation game, maybe I can will myself to be faster :wink:

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To the OP, I am a bit reluctant to post becuase I’m not a tall or big rider so am not speaking from experience. But I’ve certainly had the experience of getting dropped and looking for solutions.

You said slight uphill. To me, that does indicate that aero can help. If you are going more than ~15 mph while you are getting dropped, I would say that any aero improvements will help you expend less power.

I think for a tall rider in a bunch, there is a free aero benefit if most of the bunch is probably on the hoods with straight arms, and you start using the aero hoods position (on the hoods, but with your forearms parallel to the ground). That saves me a ton of watts. Depending on bike fit, core strength, and flexibility, that position isn’t always a comfortable one to hold for long periods of time. But you could shift between aero-hoods and the drops, and stay off the bar tops and the extended-arms/hoods position.

You can also buy aero, depending on what you own already. Upgrading to an aero wheel eg a $1,000 set from Hunt makes a big difference. An aero helment can. And tight clothes can.

And the other aero benefit you might benefit from is positional. If you are moving at ~15 mph or more on the hills where you get dropped, and you are on shoulder of the road with faster riders moving past you in the middle of the lane, you may not have consistent shielding from the wind. Is there a rider in the bunch that’s only slightly stronger than you, that you can make sure you’re behind on these hills? That way, if both of you are sag-climbing, you’ll still have his body shielding him from the wind as you both move from the front of the pack to the back of it.

And finally, I’ve also been in the situation of being a stronger rider within a group. I don’t resent folks who don’t take pulls. If they are not pulling just so they can attack at every town-line sprint etc, that could be annoying I guess. If they are not taking pulls to conserve energy so as to not get dropped (very common on rides I’m on), I’m much happier to have them skip pulls and continue to be part of the ride.

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I’m looking at this from a slightly different perspective.

Can you soften some of the other riders up, early in the ride? Are you able to throw in a couple of efforts, early on? Shake things up a little. Get other riders working and upset their flow.

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Lol, same month even. Looks like my memory is going.

On another note, this is when I started overtraining pretty badly. The couple months before this I was flying In terms of fitness. By around June I was really struggling with fatigue and failing workouts. Caught COVID in November and didn’t give myself enough time to recover, lost motivation and nearly gave up. Hit a hard reset on things this April and am working hard to reduce weight. I will say that I’m feeling fitter than I have in a long, long time.

Since you have presumably a higher power on the flats, can you try to calculate how much of a lead you need on the group to sag ride the climb to the top at your own pace, but end up ahead of or in the group. It sounds a little counter-intuitive, but perhaps an attack before the climb can yield you the seconds you need to get to the top without destroying yourself.

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That’s a good point. I did when I first started riding in this group, but was told by pretty much everyone that I was being a jerk for attacking on the flats and downhills are neutralized. I posted about that a long time ago and got the advice to not ride with this group, but it’s really the only fast group in my area.

Group rides are weird, some people want it to be a race and some just want a good workout. I don’t really care about the drama anymore so yeah, maybe I will just spice things up a bit the next time I ride with them. I’ve been riding this group for the last 2 years so I have some clout, right? :grin:

Yeah that’s a good point, I gotta look into how to push the pace before the climb. There are a couple short but sharp climbs before a 2 minute flat and then the main climb. I’m guessing the best way to do it is to hammer down the descent of the last small climb (disregarding the “neutralized descent” rule) and try to get a break, then hammer the flats and let the group catch me halfway up the climb. I’ll look into that.

Err… what? Are you descending mountains? No attacking on the flat? Not sure what to make of those ‘rules’.

Sounds to me like a few riders like things their own way. I can kinda understand the descent rule but that said, if you can climb well and descend terribly, that’s the part of the ride you’re going to have to work through and after.

These are the rules passed down through the ages of the ride :wink: . Honestly I thought about it and I really don’t care much about the drama caused by breaking the rules. I’ll probably hold off on attacking on descents, largely because the descents are pretty twisty and a lot of large trucks use them. But I’ll try to push the pace on the flats and see what happens.

I don’t know where the hill tops but maybe the Clydesdale should come together and either ask for a timeout at the top to wait for everyone (neutralizing the need to push over your limit) or refusing to pull the group on the flats.

There used to be a regroup at the bottom of the climb, might be worth it to ask if they can reinstitute it again.

  1. Get older and fatter friends.
  2. Challenge everyone smaller than you to some fisticuff’s.
  3. e-Bike
  4. Have you tried this thing called polarbear…that’s not it…maybe polebean? I don’t know it’s some sort of magical training regimen where skiers walk up mountains to develop midichlorians.
  5. Or, get on the gear

I feel for ya. Hard getting beat all the time. Hope those rides are still enjoyable.

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If 50ppl are showing up, you need to be in the upper 10% of the field entering the uphill/windy section.

Many people will pass you, but that’s the point. Your goal is to survive long enough so you can latch on to the coattail of the peloton after you crest and exit the critical section.

If you are starting in the back, there is no chance. You will get blown off and nobody there to help scoop you up and stay attached.

So fighting for your position BEFORE entering the critical section, and saving enough energy to survive is key. This skill is immediately actionable while you work on fitness and aero.

20ppl will be harder, but same concepts apply.

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To quote the classic uni movie Road Trip: It's supposed to be a challenge, it's a shortcut! If it were easy it would just be the way.

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Don’t do that…if descents are supposed to be neutralized, adhere to the rules. If you don’t like the rules, don’t do the ride.

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Don’t know if you are being serious here or not, based on the rules of the “race simulation” as described by the OP it sounds like this is more of a club ride with a hill climb contest in the middle for those with high watt/Kg to flex.
The rules he states are no attacks on the flats and neutral descents.

Which direction is the wind coming from on this particular section? I.E. is it a block headwind or a crosswind?

On the climbs, a heavier more powerful rider wants a headwind to neutralise the climbers advantage. If that’s the case, try and find a wheel where you get more shelter near the front of the group just before the climb so you can slide back through as the pace goes up. Hopefully then you’ll be able to stay in touch with the last wheels over the top.

If it’s a crosswind, then those that are more experienced in how to ride echelons will know exactly how to smash the ride to bits when the wind blows across the road. If this is the case you need to know what side of the road to be on to get shelter. In a crosswind if you’re not on the front and know how to ride an echelon you’ll be spat out the back very quickly!!

If you are on the front you’ll be working much harder than all those drafting you. Can you not sit mid pack and only hit the front when a sustained climb is about to start? You may be burning yourself out before you’ve even reached a climb.

100% serious….I fully understand it is a club / group ride, but if the “rules” of the ride are that descents are neutralized (assuming for safety of all involved), then don’t be the guy who attacks on a descent anyway.

Same for the idea of not attacking in the flats…personally, I think that is silly, but if I am doing a group ride, I adhere to the rules that are established.

If you don’t like the rules of the group, don’t ride with them.

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Generally, yes. But if those other riders are 5’5" 135lbs and you’re 6’1" 200lbs then you’re still gonna have a lot of you exposed to the wind. Also, once you get dropped (or even just open a small gap) you’ll have a much harder time to get back on.

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