I did the reverse a couple of years ago. I was constantly over fatigued by my 3 hour group ride.
I decided to do old school polarized base miles for 11 weeks (it was probably a few weeks too long). Over the block I increased my hours to 13 hours per week. It was almost all Z1/Z2. I’m sure I shifted my lactate curve. At every power my heart rate was running lower. At week 8 of this block I was breaking all my PRs on the group ride. I could do that 3 hour group ride with minimal fatigue and even extend it to 4 or 5 hours and feel pretty darn good.
Yes but you have decreased the volume and shifted workouts composition into different adaptations. There is not denying that doing a lot of Z2 work will be very benefitial. That is why probably the best training for the base would be Traditional Base and then SSB. Like I said - every aerobic workout leads to aerobic base but also to different adaptations. I also agree that there is no substitute to Z2 riding.
not to argue, but there are some unstated premises in your answer here and/or assuming the answer to the question. You note that there are some coaches who advocate focusing mostly on “base”, but what exactly is “base”?
a lot of people use intensity guardrails–back in the day, they were super didactic about it, and even now you still meet people who say that accidentally riding too hard one time in the winter will “ruin your base”. But i think it’s clear now that you don’t have to, and that if base means aerobic fitness, endurance, repeatability, etc., then all aerobic trainings (even intense ones) will build your base.
But if that’s true, then again, what is base?
with that we come back to, base is training to train: it’s exercises–whatever they are–where the selection and progression is targeted towards getting you to a place where you can absorb and adapt to more training vs. pushing for power gains in the short term. Think of it that way, and there are so many different ways to do it, the world is your oyster.
but of course note that sometimes when coaches say “focus mostly on base” lots of times they are referring to the old-school way of approaching it, i.e., low intensity trainings.
Exercise that triggers an increase in your aerobic threshold
Your aerobic threshold is sufficiently close to your anaerobic threshold (different definitions of “sufficiently close”)
(You don’t need any measures of coupling, marriage, decoupling, HR drift, etc. You need a measure of AeT, and a measure of AT. Make them get close together by increasing the lower one. What happens physiologically? You can google that. The harder question is: what do I do to make #1 happen)
@old_but_not_dead_yet Cute. That’s not what I meant. I was referring to his question about what happens physiologically. The chart from Coggan that Overton uses was posted earlier. Certainly you’re capable of googling and tediously reminding us of all the adaptations that occur with endurance exercise. Knowing them won’t get you any faster unless you know how to apply them. And even ppl who don’t know how to apply them still manage to get faster.
I interact with ppl all time who know tons of science and are slow as balls, or worse, advising others who end up being slower than balls.
Also, attempting to apply some sort of scientific definition to a term, “base”, that came out coaching (likely from Lydiard, like many other terms related to endurance training), is a stretch. Why not just allow the various ideas about “What is base” from good coaches inform the OP? He can make up his own mind.
You didn’t mean that the goal of “base” training was to move AeT closer to AT, and that was the result of particular changes in physiology? What did you mean, then?
@sryke rather than frame the discussion as “bringing AeT and AT closer together” I’d simply propose saying that one outcome of a well developed “Base” is that fat as fuel is increased at higher power outputs.
on page 6 of the 2006 book Base Building for Cyclists by Thomas Chapple. Hard to read my bad pic, the caption states:
Graphs showing how, after following the base training program outlined in this book, the athlete improved fat burning, raised the upper training threshold (or fitness ceiling), and increased the power output relative to heart rate. The athlete did so by training at lower intensities than in previous base training. Although the athlete slowed down, he became faster.
And the before/after tables:
Calorie Utilization of Fat (KCal/min)
Zone1
Zone2
Zone3
Zone4
Zone5
Before
4.2
3.4
2.4
2.0
0.0
After
6.7
6.3
4.9
4.5
1.0
The lower aerobic threshold only went from 163 to 168W. Power at ~162bpm went from 209 to 214W. Not sure how to read the anaerobic threshold, but zone5 is wider and it looks like a higher top-end.
Pretty clear that fat as fuel has increased. Now if you do 45-60 minute races you may not care as much, but if you do longer races or longer adventure / epic rides then it makes a real difference.
I believe Tim Cusick from WKO5 talks about some of the stuff in this thread in the presentation below e.g lifting various components of your power curve in different phases of training etc.
A quick dot point summary of what I jotted down when watching:
Phase 1 Base (extensive - pull the curve out to the right) =
4-12 weeks
At or just beyond TTE at around 85-94% PDC (Tempo or Sweet Spot) but this is subjective to each athletes range
You’d probably have to do a KM FTP Test in order to get the TTE so that you can plan your Sweet Spot interval lengths
TIZ as a % of weekly volume around 20 - 30% in a progressive manner. Progressive being the key here.
Progress workout TIZ to 200% of TTE e.g. if TTE is 35min then progress this base phase so that you slowly creep up to 70min overall TIZ.
Phase 2 Base (intensive - pull the curve up) =
Progress workout TIZ intervals 15-20min before your current TTE at 95 - 105% PDC (power duration curve for that time limit). E.g. 35min TTE then aim for a progressive increase up 10-15min.
Progress workout TIZ to 150% of TTE e.g. if TTE is 35min then progress this base phase so that you slowly creep up to 53min overall workout TIZ.
*Example: *
Athletes TTE is 35min then he/she would look at 20min SS/Threshold intervals at 95-105% PDC at the 20min mark. If he/she did 2 x 20min that would give him/her 40min TIZ in the workout. He/she would then slowly look to raise that progressively so that they could reach 70min TIZ in the workout. Perhaps maybe the next increase might be 2x20 + 1x10 = 50min etc.
Yes, base is a phase of training. Everything you do on the bike can be considered training per-say. The structured nature of TR etc. lends itself to an understanding of different ‘phases’ of training.
The TR plan model is Base Phase, Build phase and finally a Specialty Phase leading into an event. The major difference between the three is specificity, progressive overload characteristics and depending upon your choice of volume, pretty much everything in the FITT principle (Frequency, Intensity, Time, Type)
I think someone described it above as a coaching concept and I think it’s super helpful to think of it that way.
Because really it’s just a construct. It’s a construct that includes whatever you or your coach thinks is helpful to prioritize early in the season, and includes whatever guardrails you or your coach believes are important to keep you from overcooking, and probably includes a more limited number of goals so that you can see the effect of your inputs without too many variables. It’s informed but not dictated by physiology hence why there’s no one right answer although probably a number of wrong answers.
Because like, think of the TTE example. There’s lots of trainings that will end up extending your TTE, provided it includes progressive overload and a mix of some hard and some easy. Guarantee you that’s most important vs the specific design of your hard days. So, why does the coach say to approach base in that way specifically? Well I think, see the above.
I’m just at the ping where I’ve had almost two weeks off cycling and ready to start a ‘base’ again.
I’m trying to keep the next few months easy so I was thinking about a 5 day schedule where I do:
M - 90 mins with 2x20 at FTP
T - 1:15 recovery
W - 2:00 @. 75% FTP
T - 90 mins with 2x20 FTP
F or S - 2:00 @. 75% FTP
I’ll vary the T/T workouts working toward 3x30 or 2x45 over the next few months. I may drop to SS target is that too hard.
I’m trying to fill in the rest of this year with a bit of variety from the standard plans — and trying to work in 3 runs per week as well. M-F is easiest for me to commit too and gives me room for the family during the weekends.
