I heard that alluded to with @janerney’s response being that his CTL is effectively higher due to increased FTP.
So, would you say you’re pretty content maintaining a consistent CTL at this point as long as you’re increasing your FTP. What CTL is that if so?
From your other posts on the forum, it’s obvious you’ve got a solid history riding. Care to share some details?
Thanks @stevemz!
CTL and FTP have very little direct connection. CTL is basically just how much training one does. SOmeone can have a 200 ftp and have 100 ctl or 275w and 100 ctl. CTL is basically just a running average of training stress. The higher the CTL the more training stress (ATL) you can handle without your stress balance (TSB) getting way too negative and chronic fatigue. So for me, a higher CTL just means you can just ride more and fit in more training without getting physically exhausted. So you can work on FTP and other fitness by doing more training, but CTL in an of itself is not a direct measure or connected to your FTP
Looking back at my past few years, CTL usually peaks somewhere in the 65-70 range in March and then more or less stays flat or declines through peak season, even if FTP is going up.
and just to add on to myself, there’s a practical limit of how high someone’s CTL can get, and the big factor is time. WHen I got to 100 CTL, I had done some big weeks, with a lot of time and TSS. I made an effort to do these because I was preparing for a big event, but in real life this level of sustained riding is pretty unsustainable for most folks.
Wk May 29- 12hrs - 826TSS
Wk Jun 5- 11hrs 736TSS
Wk June 12- 11hrs 533TSS
Wk June 19 - 15hrs 815TSS
Wk June 26 - 13hrs 536 TSS
Racing cat: Not sure yet, never raced before but am planning on doing some this year, have done a few fondo’s before but nothing serious.
Current CTL is 103 ATL is 84 and TSB is 8. That is coming off of the rest week after SSB HV2 and going into sustained power build after a good FTP boost. I am looking forward to doing some races this year but the only ones around where I live are all criteriums and that is not something I am too interested in but will do a few and see how it goes.
I think there is also a couple hill climbs that I will try out as that is something I enjoy much more.
If anyone has suggestions for races around Vancouver or where to find local races please let me know.
Ok, so no direct connection. I get that. But they are related, right? Maybe even inversely - as in - as your FTP increases, your ability to increase your CTL decreases? Which may be where “break-through” workouts come in, where both may simultaneously increase for a period of time?
And, this in turn increases your ability to ride somehow, right? So, does increasing my CTL imply anything directly related to my FTP? Like, does increasing my CTL at a given FTP imply that I can hold my FTP for longer durations? Or is it just “you’ve been training at this volume for awhile. You can handle this volume.” with no correlation to actual fitness or ability?
… I think I’m making myself more confused… this may be something for a different thread, haha!
This is important to remember, especially if your focus is shorter duration events or just fewer events per season.
If you race a crit every weekend, race CX, XC or you have just a few long gravel events or a long endurance MTB race, CTL isn’t all that important. TR plans handle it all for you anyway. And yes, during your cx or any race season it can, will and should fall if you don’t purposely add in a rebuild.
If you want to perform in multiple long stage races and race regularly in between, you may want to focus on CTL a bit more.
Less hours and more intensity (TR) is a perfectly fine approach and works well. It’s also much easier and more gratifying to do hard rides when you ride indoors. I’m saying this as someone who spends 12-14hrs/wk on the trainer right now. I dread Z1/2 days more than anything else and I’m in a “training camp” week this week…
I, like @hubcyclist notice that when my CTL is high I feel bulletproof. Improved muscular endurance and stamina is very noticeable. Since bringing my CTL from the 60s this winter to 90 now, I’ve only increased my FTP 15w but can ride for 3+ hrs at over 80% very repeatedly and comfortably while still taking some digs here and there. Basically a ton of SS and some Z2 to make that happen. My top end doesn’t feel sharp but still hit new 1, 5, and 10 min records in the last few weeks.
Also worth mentioning you rarely want to hold CTL stable. Build it up, race it down, repeat.
FWIW I’m 38. I raced a couple seasons in my early 20s and same again in my early 30s. Jumping back in after 4 years completely off the bike.
Cat 3 road (and might do some cx)
188cm
70kg
330 FTP
Nope. CTL doesn’t have anything to do with the type of work you’re doing, just how much. If you maintain an increasing CTL you’ll probably increase FTP at some point but no guarantees.
Most athletes, especially masters, with a high CTL get there by doing a bunch of low intensity long outdoor rides and group rides. Neither of which result in great gains in many cases. Structured training will serve you better.
I really wouldn’t bother thinking to much about this, and check out the TP site for info if you just can’t help yourself.
The TR plans work very well and unless you’re doing a lot of volume CTL isn’t anything to bother tracking.
TT/RR
Tricky one. I signed up as a “Citizen/Non-Licensed” rider…I just wanted “official” timing to validate my fitness (post getting nailed by a car!), wasn’t looking to compete per se. They put me in Cat. 4; results put me in the bottom of Cat. 1/2.
Now that I’m fully looking to race this season, I’m most likely going to get a Masters license.
First year of doing actual true structured training. Last year was a hodgepodge of my own best guesses. So far though, in 6 months of TR I still haven’t surpassed what I did in 3 months of my own training. 
Keeping this very broad as that seems to be the tone of the thread. I’ve got a very typical two peak season and follow the Friel adage that between 10 and -10 TSB isnt a place to hang out if you’re looking to make gains or race at your best.
Building now for first A race in late May. I train in 4 week blocks 3:1 work rest. I’m currently riding a ton of SS (2-3.5 hr trainer rides .8+ IF) and Z2 and starting training races in March (no interest in results but should be fine).
Interval work (VO2 and above) starts mid April near peak CTL. Taper for my A race and roll through my B race the following week. Then the build starts again for a higher peak before my second A race at the end of August. I’ll have fun and hopefully get a few results racing in June-July while doing a similar interval and taper block before that one too.
Then I get to enjoy the last of the good riding weather for long outdoor rides and race some cx (maybe) to keep up CTL before a short break and do it again next year.
Basically, I’m always working on building form or enjoying some freshness;) Goal is to upgrade this year. Had the points a couple times in the past and never took the leap…
No, cat 4 upgrade is just experience based…10 races and you can get one. I applied early…7 or 8 races. They grant early upgrades if you ask based on performance; I was pretty competitive relative to the 4s I raced against in my cat 4/5 races.
I’m not shooting for any specific training load or anything. Will do low volume sweet spot base - short power build - CX specialty, and suppliment with commuting miles and Sunday group rides. May try a couple crits over the summer.
I’m curious to see what kind of improvements i make. I think I have a chance to be really competitive. We’ll see.
I’m not looking to set the world on fire. I’m turning 40 this week and only recently got seriously into cycling for sport a few years ago (rather than fun ride/commuting). But I think with low volume but serious structured training, I’ve got a chance at podiums this year. I’m definitely getting stronger, if only marginally. Plus down 5 pounds.
I’m upper B-Grade, lower A-Grade Club rider in Aus - which I think is probably cat 3 equiv.? 35y.o. 6’4" male and have been racing for 7 years.
I’m 88kg with FTP yo-yoing between ~290W (3.3W/kg) in the offseason to 350W (4W/kg) during race season.
I mostly race crits and am lucky to have fairly good sprint power without any real training for it - peaking at just over 1600W. Somewhat more importantly, I hold more than 1000W for 20sec. My 5-10min power is a bit lacking, but I can generally sustain 95% of my FTP for an hour solid and still sprint at over 1200W at the end fo the race.
In terms of training, I’m fairly relaxed in the off-season and have plenty of time off the bike. During this period, I usually do about 100-200TSS per week (1-3h) and this mostly involves strength endurance work to keep ticking over and try not to loose too much fitness.
I start to ramp up specific training about 2-3months ahead of race season - keeping the strength endurance, but mixing in some shorter efforts. I gradually ramp up to 250-350TSS per week (3-4h) and my CTL goes from basically nothing (10) to around 30 for the start of race season.
During race season i’m usually doing 300-400TSS per week (4-5h) and typically climb to a peak CTL around 45. I race once per week and usually only do two additional interval sessions, usually based around VO2 work, but sometimes add an extra session of sub-threshold efforts, cadence work or sprint drills.
I also try to do a big block of 600-800TSS in the week after Christmas (mostly outdoor long rides) to give a good boost when racing resumes a couple of weeks later (timing allows plenty of time for recovery after the block). This is also about the only time of year I have time to go out for a 4+hour ride, so I make the most of it!
Basically all of my TSS is either specific intervals, races, or riding to & from my races. Due to time constraints, most of my ‘recovery’ is spent off the bike doing things like walks with the family & stretching.
I don’t usually pay any attention to my CTL, I simply looked since that was the question asked. As mentioned by @stevemz and @hubcyclist CTL isn’t super useful except in trying to assess the amount of work that hass been done.
Having a higher CTL probably indicates the ability to stack more hard days together, such as a hard stage race. Having traditionally focused on stage races (Tour of the Gila, Tucson Bicycle Classic, and Valley of the Sun specifically) my training for those types of events has caused my CTL to be rather high compared to many people. That being said, as I’ve focused on those types of events less in recent years I’ve been considering if my training has been as effective as it could be. Perhaps I’ve limited my gains in shorter power segments because I’ve traditionally had too much fatigue in my system to allow for proper execution of hard/punchy workouts.
Any room for a tri geek? We don’t have specific categories, but do have a point system to quality for the xterra world championships. There are also 3 races in the us that have 3 qualifying slots that will roll down to the top 5 in most of the Male age groups. Road/non draft legal racing is different with slots for Kona at all of the mdot sanctions races.
Last year i was third in my region, but have a lot of ground to make up if i want to contend for the regional title. Best three races determines regional scoring and the guy who got first in the region last year will probably be at two of the three races.
Don’t use training peaks so don’t know CTL, but average daily TSS when I was logging only bike workouts, was roughly 35 at the beginning of the race season. Currently about 65 logging s/b/r activities and will be about 80 at the end of the build.
40 years old, sitting at about 4.2 w/kg, aiming for 4.5 w/kg. (last year I was right around 4 w/kg and that would allow me to race to about top 10-15% of overall bike splits, hoping to get better than top 10% this year)
Of note… I’m not using the ramp test, I’m just manually setting a FTP in to TR that provides the desired training stimulus (based on my HR response). So far only one small hiccup doing this during January and coming back from a trip, so I backed it back down. I think my current number is closer to what the ramp would give me, as right now all the intensity is just about perfect, and well it’s either intensity or Z2 work.
I was hoping another triathlete would contribute. My CTL is currently 83 after a week of recovery and two days of rest (keeping in mind the podcast’s distinction of rest v recovery). My running is easily a third of normal as I’ve been focusing on the bike (enter the last phase of FDTB-HV) and usually 2 swims a week (totaling around 7km, obviously more if I get in a third swim).
I’m 51 and around 3.0 w/kg and carrying 15lbs (!) more than I did last year this time (running is key to my weight loss and I was running a lot more at the end of 2017 through early 2018 compared to the last few months). The plan to drop the weight is underway (under weigh?).
The plan is to, like last year, is to peak the CTL in the 120s before my one A race in mid-Aug.
Hi, I have a CTL(fitness) 57, ATL(fatigue) 81, From(TSB )-24. I am a cat 4 and have not raced since 2010 consistently and the races were a weekly training series crit. I did not race the weekend to get points to upgrade. in 2019 I did 4 crits and that got me interested in trying to upgrade to as high as I could at 57. Cat 1? FTP about 170 and weight 63.5 @ 5’2".
My highest 20 minute power was 209 back in 2017. Training pecks have a table for the TSS for a cat 1/2 Annual hours 700-1000, ave hours 14-20, target CTL 105-120. At 57 years old is that possible to get to cat 1 or 2 and would I really need to do that much to get fast enough to win?
Cat A/A+
Race relentlessly
No idea what CTL even is.
Haven’t done any structured training since 2018
Current FTP 4.79w/kg
90 day 3x best 95% of 20 min efforts - 4.59w/kg
I primarily do CX. I’m 42, riding bikes for about 5 years and structured for 3-4 years. Currently weigh 142 lbs with an FTP of 294 (4.5 W/Kg). Currently cat 3 and will hopefully get my cat 2 upgrade early this season. In 2019, did 2 cat 3 races. I won one and took 3rd in the other at around 4 W/Kg.
My CTL usually floats in the high 50’s on MV plans. But with AT and in the middle of specialty right now, I’m in the low 50’s. First race is this weekend!!!
I’m enjoying this thread. Nice to see how people are doing!
I am a 39 year old US based cat-1 road racer. I primarily do road races, sometimes TTs and crits
Didn’t do any sanctioned races in 2020 or 2021 due to the pandemic, but did ‘race’ some fondos this season, ended up on age group and overall podiums there
My w/kg is in the 4.7-4.9 range depending on fitness and time of year (definitely on the lower end right now, was up around 5 at a peak earlier this year).
My CTL varies a ton based on time of year - currently around 108, during base it will creep as high as 115 or 120, during build or race cycles it is down around 85 or 90
Cat 4 road, mostly crits, only a year of real racing and training. ~4.2 W/kg and CTL usually around 60. I haven’t been doing much real periodization or structured training lately.