Thanks. I did have an actual coach last year but had to give it up because of finances, unfortunately. I would have been able to chat through this with them but instead I came here to ask for advice.
I’m using TR primarily now as a good calendar and workout resource as its becoming apparent that I’m far too badly behaved and maveric to do what a computer program tells me 
I’ll just wing it and see. What’s the worst that can happen. It won’t be the first time I’ve blown myself up. 
Yeah it’s tough to give advice here because TR structures things a certain way and uses certain workouts at certain times, etc. I don’t agree with all of what their plans do, but that’s fine, “all roads lead to Rome” and all that… but in my former life as a TR user back in the day, they dosed out zone 5 work on a consistent basis rather than in any one block.
Essentially a mixed block periodization all year is what they kind of use, so inserting specific blocks can be tricky here.
Thanks, I think that’s what I feel like I have been getting, lots of different workouts. Maybe because it’s right and I should be doing this mix of sweetspot, threshold, VO2 intervals. I’m not going to argue with the merits of the plan, it will probably make me faster if I follow it.
I don’t really want to though . What I really feel like my ageing body wants is some VO2 stuff and lots more easy stuff. I guess true polarisation for a bit. That’s what brought me to this thread in the first place. If I am following a TR structured plan I get lots of dosing of sweetspot and threshold. If I ride at home unstructured, then I get lots of sweetspot and threshold. That’s what I get, over and over and over.
3 weeks of work with a different focus will shake things up if nothing else and if I get no fitness gains from it, then meh, it doesn’t really matter. The VO2 stuff is the only thing I really enjoy doing indoors too. Threshold/sweetspot indoors is duller than dishwater. With VO2 stuff I don’t have time to think about anything other than not dying/throwing up. I like that.
It’s been so long since I’ve done any proper z5 stuff that my body will be in for a surprise but I have nothing to loose.
Hit a PR for 5 minute power this morning! Pretty stoked on that, especially since it was the 3rd session of the week and I did 3 hrs at .55 IF yesterday.
@JoPage If you’re interested in using TR workouts for a VO2 block, below are the workouts I’m using for the progression.
week 1 – denali -2, snowshoe fire, snowshoe fire
week 2 – border, border, morgan -4
week 3 – morgan -4, mount deborah, mount deborah
Thank you @gally24, I am interested in this. I had kind of planned to do a more 30 30s to start, just to remind me of how to work hard.
Ill put a plan together and go from there next week. Excited to get started now!
Hi knowledgeable people
I have started this VO2 block thingy and have done some lower PL VO2 workouts to just remind me how to work hard above threshold. But I have a few questions
These lower PL workouts tend toward shorter efforts. I did the first one inside on the trainer in erg mode and also soon realised that the ‘feel’ of the workout was very much spin fast - it felt like an effort up a slight incline/false flat.
However, for most of my day to day riding/big rides, the only time I am really likely to do VO2 efforts is up steeper hills - eg part of an XC race or when a threshold climb suddenly ramps up to 25%.
So I’ve done the last two workouts outside instead on climbs with varying gradients and varying terrain. Is this a good idea or should I just stick to the trainer?
It’s a lot easier for me to put the power through on a climb, and on these 1 to 2 minute efforts the Garmin tells me that I am just working anearobic/neuromuscular stuff. Is this a problem? Should I just sack off the shorter efforts with the longer recoveries (I don’t mean 30/30s I believe those work by shorter recovery so you don’t shift the lactate in time for the next effort?) and focus on longer intervals that are more like supra-threshold stuff?
Am I just pointlessly working at levels above VO2 max or will these efforts still have a benefit on VO2 max?
Also, I’m sure I read somewhere that, with VO2, you just have to go as hard as you can for the duration of the interval. I am still finding the RPE feel of these harder efforts, and often go out hard initially and then drop off and settle for the remainder of the interval, but not dropping off as far down as the power level that TR suggests. What I mean is, I am still easily hitting the power target prescribed, but it isn’t in a nice flat line like it is on the trainer - it has a spike at the front. Is this initial spike a bad thing? I am hoping it will go away when I am better able to get my RPE right at the higher power stuff. But in the meantime, is it just causing me pointless stress rather than aiding anything?
If I am outside and have to ride a bit between blocks of intervals, is this a problem? Like today I stupidly forgot to put the bottle on the bike so I had to ride and find a water spring to drink from halfway through the workout. This gave me some unstructured riding between blocks 1 and 2 on the intervals. Will this affect the workout significantly, or does it not matter as long as I hit the power targets on the intervals?
Finally, intensity factor - today I got a 0.96 intensity factor but I literally have no idea how that is calculated because it definitely did not feel that intense. Obviously the short efforts did, but the rest of it was faffing/recovery. The only thing I can think is maybe because of the unstructured riding in the middle that bumped this up a bit?
Just started my vo2max block yesterday (first block with my new coach!) with a spicy double day, 3x6min and 5x3min. What’s on the table today? You guessed it, another double day… Then a few days of easy riding and another back-to-back double day for a total of 8 vo2max workouts in seven days. See you on the other side xD The first day wasn’t that bad but I’m sure the fatigue will build up over the block.
Blummin Nora, that sounds brutal 
Im on my last week of a 3 week block and am keen for recovery week now, but have enjoyed my training more in the last 3 weeks than I have for ages. I started easy to get use to things but the PL have ramped up even on just two sessions a week for me. Looking at this thread it would be easy to fall into the mindset that I haven’t done enough, but I’m happy with the work I have done.
I think VO2 is the only thing that comes close to giving me a ‘runners high’
I have no idea if doing this has helped or hindered my event training yet, but I have been amazed to put down a whole load of power PRs up to 4 minute power so far. I’m probably going to do the classic 5x5 for my last session this week.
Then I’ve got about 6 weeks to prep for an event and then will have some downtime. I’m pondering then sticking in 2 x 3 week blocks of VO2 later in the summer. For no reason, just because I can and I like it and want to see what happens.
Why? That sounds horrible, when I was doing a VO2 max block, the last thing I wanted to do was another VO2 max workout that same day.
My coach usually prescribes back-to-back double vo2max days during vo2max blocks. He’s found great results with the approach both with himself and his clients. Focus on high cadence, hard-ish starts etc. Here’s a good podcast with him talking about it: Unsupported browser
I made it through the second double day, wasn’t fun but I managed to push ok watts despite the mounting fatigue. Now a few rest days and another back-to-back double coming up.
Could someone please explain - what is the point of the back to back double days?
If you can successfully complete the sessions it’s a great stimulus.
A huge amount of signaling/stimulus. Never done back to back doubles myself. I’ve done 3x in 2 days on myself and some athletes. Sometimes more isn’t better… more is just… more.
Frankly though, those workouts are fairly small in and of themselves, 15-18min of stimulus… not sure what the format of the 30x30s is… probably 3x10 30/15s? So 18-15-15-kinda 15.
The blocks I’ve given and done myself are typically double-single days then 2-3 days recovery. Workouts are 20 min-20 min then 18 to 21min on the second day.
I do like that the first workout is front loaded in terms of length of interval. Not sure about the rest of it, personally. Similar overall workloads just spread out a little more and in a different format.
Dunno.
Also to add: most people don’t NEED this.
With my previous coach I also did a similar-ish vo2max block previously, with three double days and two single days in 12 days. No back-to-backs there, but the individual workouts were longer, either 6x4min or 5x5min always. That block worked really well for me results-wise but I do remember that because the individual workouts were so grueling, the quality of my PM sessions on the double days was really low – either I couldn’t hold the cadence up for all of the intervals or the power was hard to come by. This time with the shorter sessions I feel like I have been able to keep the quality a bit higher and the sessions have felt better. It might also be because my nutrition is more dialed in this time around, who knows.
In any case, if someone wants to try back-to-back doubles at home, please don’t start with any more volume than that 15-18min per session – believe me, this feels plenty hard even with the lower volume 
Ok thanks.
I am quite happy that much less stimulus is having results right now so back to back double days can wait for another lifetime. 
Well I’m still alive after completing the block xD The second double-double started with a 3x6min workout. For some reason I had some trouble with this one on the muscular side, the lactate hit my glutes severely in the first set and I had to back down. Oh well. Then in the PM workout all of the sudden I had very good legs and hit +10-15W on all my 5x3min efforts compared to the last time. Seems like the block is working!
Well, my little VO2 block of 5 sessions (I missed the last one) bumped my FTP up 2.2 percent which is one of the biggest increase I’ve had all year, even with having 1 to 1 coaching advice last year. So that’s nice. Did my first threshold workout a couple of days ago in weeks and it felt more like sweetspot at the prescribed power…and I guess it was if I’ve had an FTP bump today.
Do you guys typically include a zone 2 and sweetspot block after the vo2max block?
Personally I have done some SS but mostly Threshold and some supra threshold. I think the first time I did this my coach also had me duplicate an earlier workout which was 4x10 which helped confirm some improvements.
