Ultra-endurance training

Sounds like that one Lachlan Morton did in Spain where he did it in 44 hours or something without stopping…

Best thought of as a challenge rather than a race. It’s actually illegal in the UK to race bikes on bridleways though that definition really only applies to England and Wales since there’s no such distinction or definition in Scotland. By illegal it’s not just interpretation, there’s a specific line in the legislation: “The racing of bicycles on bridleways is prohibited”, you can’t even get special permission from the Secretary of State!

LEL always sounds interesting. For the HT550 and similar I have a set of “ride notes” with distances of shops, cafés, etc. and their opening times in a zip lock plastic bag on my stem. Probably not so much a problem on the LEL as there’s more likely to be filling stations, all night options along the route. Do you follow a specific route or are you free to choose your own between checkpoints?

Yes, I knew that. There was a gravel “race” near here the other weekend (put on by pan-celtic), they had timed sections and specifically prohibited racing on the other parts. So a bit like a gravel enduro. Big reason why we don’t have good long distance MTB races in the UK - the 24hr ones are usually on circuits.

They provide GPX files and a route sheet. But I believe there is nothing specifically stopping you going off route - you simply need to have your Brevet card stamped at each checkpoint, those are every 50-100km.

And yes re: filling stations - the checkpoints all have food (and sleeping options, camp beds). Plus obviously being on road, you will have shops more often.

It’s mandatory route, you must follow the prescribed route unless there’s a safety issue / road closed etc. it’s dark isn’t considered a safety issue :wink: if you go off route you must return to where you left the route.

Depends on what you mean by limited sleep. Even if your moving average speed on the road is 18 km/h you will be able to get around 4 hours sleep a night and build a time buffer, if you don’t faff at controls. Certainly in my case 4 hours sleep every 24 hours is enough to maintain my performance over the 5 days of LEL.

Well thats just it - I don’t know yet :laughing:

Realistically I won’t find out for sure until I have actually done it.

I’m doing a 600 in a few weeks, which would give some better idea. But thats still only really one night (although being up at 4 on Saturday morning means that night won’t be great either).

But my planning follows your advice in the other thread and I am going to aim for 4-5 hours a night and play it by ear.

Certainly I think my road speed will be a lot in excess of 18 kph, I’m around 280 watt FTP at the moment so even bumping along at <0.6IF will be 160 watts or so. That should leave a reasonable buffer.

To move from sleep to nutrition…I’m interested in hearing what nutrition people plan on for self-supported ultras. My focus is 300 to 500-mile self-supported events. I hear the conversation about 100-grams of carbs an hour, but I struggle to see how that’s practical for the events I’m targeting. I ride at a modest IF for the events, so I’m not sure I buy into the need for lots of carbs while riding and I’ve seen a number of people DNF with stomach issues after 15 or 20 hours of riding which makes me nervous. Right now I’m leaning toward sticking with the fat-adapted model, lots of hydration & electrolytes but minimizing carb intake during the events. I’ve had pretty good results on some 24-hr TT’s on very little nutrition. I’ve listened to a lot of the Ultra Cycling Show podcasts. Based on what the “guests” talk about, there seems to be a wide range of approaches successfully used.

It’s going to come down to what can you carry on the bike and how long will that last you, and what can you get at the shops , petrol stations, cafes at the times you pass them.

What I can tell you is that what works for you for 200 miles might not work for 500 miles etc. To a certain extent you got to find out what works for you given the limitations of re supply. For instance if there’s a certain milkshake or a pasta ready meal you can get at a shop you know you’ll pass, and you know they work for you, then it goes on your list for when you stop. But if you get there and it’s out of stock what else can you eat? Meanwhile someone else it might be pork pies work for them. Someone else maybe ice cream does the job. Your ability to consume certain foods will also vary over the duration.

I tend to switch between savoury and sweet but this is born of experience. It might work different for you. That snack you’ve enjoyed the last 10 hours, maybe you can’t stand the taste of it now and need something different.

When it comes to unsupported you’ve got to be quite adaptable nutrition wise based on what you can get and when and what your stomach is telling you.

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But then it’s unlikely you could have done what you did without those meal stops. It’s like when you see someone ride 900 miles in under 3 days without sleep. Sure you might be able to match their average speed when moving but not with no sleep or minimal time off the bike.

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One or two were due to timings: I got to Oykel Bridge heading south at 1930. The supermarket in Ullapool shuts at 2200 and it was roughly 3 1/2hrs riding to get there so there was no point in doing so until the morning so I stopped at the hotel (actually my worst night’s sleep on the route!). The following morning I set off at 4am so that was an 8 1/2hr stop.

If I’d got to Oykel Bridge two hours earlier I could have made it to Ullapool that night, restocked and got into Fisherfield before bivvying. Keeping the same pace back to the finish I’d have been 12hrs quicker. Just bad timing on my part.

I too ride at a modest IF for long events and this is what works for me…

I’ve set my Wahoo to beep an alarm every time I do 200KJ of work. The alarm says “eat 100kcals” and that’s what I do. This isn’t enough to replace what I’ve burned, but it’s enough to keep me moving forward at my modest pace. When I’m working hard (uphill or burning matches), I get to eat more frequently. When I’m tired and barely turning the pedals, I get to eat less frequently.

But, big but… I supplement this starvation ration with one or two substantial meals per day depending on the daily distance. On a single day, 200 mile ride, I’ll probably stop once for something equivalent to a Chipotle burrito in volume, calorie, and nutrition. Long chain carbs are what I crave and need, so I target rice, potatoes, pasta with a smaller side of protein.

As always, everybody needs different stuff. Experimentation on shorter training rides is definitely the secret to all long distance rider’s success, whether it’s food, bike fit, clothes, or frequency of sunscreen application. :slight_smile:

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I do go with a hi-carb approach because I try to ride at an IF of 0.7. I’ve come to realise that fuelling is highly individual though. I measure out drink mix into sandwich bags (one bag per bottle) and take extra Haribos with me. Then carby food at stops. This has worked for me for 400 and 600 km events. At LEL there will be drop bags and I’ll stash more drink mix there.

One thing worth doing is to work out your hydration needs in different weather conditions. For instance at what rate do you need to drink at when it’s 25C, compared to 20C, 15C etc. This is based on the effort levels you try to work to during your long events, as the harder you work the more you’ll need to drink anyway.

I wonder if using Garmin Smart Drink (which uses temp from head unit, plus HR/Power) is adaptive enough to fill the gap. I already know by experience that the hotter it is out the sooner I get a drink prompt. The key there is that you have to obey the prompt. When one does, it’s like magic.

I find this an interesting approach but how do you cope with the sweet taste? On the trainer I use roughly 2/3 maltodextrin and 1/3 sugar and that’s ok for 90 mins, not sure I could cope with just sugar all day long (although the cost effectiveness definitely appeals!)

I’ve used a homemade sugar mix for trainer rides - add however much sugar I think I can stand plus about half a teaspoon of lemon juice. Have thought of taking sugar along on endurance rides but for whatever reason not managed to do it so far.

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I do use electrolyte powder plus lemon and lime juice which as you say does take the edge off. I also have a ‘sweet tooth’ so perhaps it’s just a matter of getting used to it and like you do having some savoury snacks as well. Something I’ll be experimenting with more, thanks for sharing your experience and good luck with your rides.

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Yes, having a high fatmax is helpful.

For rides up to 300-400k at 0.65-0.7 IF, I don’t eat much. Some liquid sugar in the bottle. Red Bulls at stops. A chocolate bar at stops. Eating much more than this leads to nausea and dying.

For longer rides, I will run out of glycogen doing that strategy and I need to eat something more substantial. Mashed or baked potatoes if available are about perfect. Maybe a chocolate milk. A relatively plain sandwich with ample mustard. Will eat 1-2 meals of this variety per day for all day riding.

If I’ll have a long break off the bike/sleep, then a cheese pizza or a couple bags of chips. Maybe a burger… though usually can’t handle that until I’ve been off the bike a few hours, and will be off the bike for a few more hours.

OK. So I did Apidura Paralells24.
Distance - 607km.
No sleep.
Ride time 21h25min
Stopped time 2h35min

Ask me anything!

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One question. Why did you stop for so long :grinning:. Just kidding great job!

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