Because trans women competing in the same category as women leads to the oppression of women athletes.
Women are not the oppressors in this situation.
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The fact that some in the past have tried to unscientifically use DNA as a justification for racism, doesn’t mean that we can’t use DNA today as a valid justification to 1) continue to classify men and women based upon XY & XX sex chromosomes & 2) distinction between those when it comes to sports.
I’m 100% not being inclusive here because we shouldn’t be. It’s okay to exclude people based upon objective criteria. Men should never be made to feel include in womens’ sports because they have no place being there.
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I’d like to ask you to use different language. Phrases like
“Objective gender”
“Butchering their bodies”
Referring to trans women as men
These are words that are very hurtful to trans people. You can use other words to make your same points.
Speaking about trans people this way is not “objective,” it is a choice.
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Won’t enjoin the debate on sex and gender, but wanted to note that this issue is not only for elites. We have several trans individuals (MtF) competing in our local races. Mostly MtF cat 4 riders participating in the women’s fields.
From time to time officials (USAC and local association) have to deal with fairness complaints directed toward these riders. Riders and officials can then review and reference the USA Cycling policy (link below).
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I am not pleased with the way the conversation has turned and am very displeased with my participation and contribution. I believe all people need to be treated fairly and respectfully regardless of personal beliefs and biases. Some of the language in this thread is terrible and full of disrespect.
I believe “Women” need to be honoured and protected in life and in sports as I am a father of 2 women. Some may view my opinion sexist, but that is how I feel. I also believe the same for all trans athletes. I understand how this threatens a portion of our society but in the last 100 years we have faced other monumental challenges and have continued to slowly move forward for to some semblance of parity for all human kind. It is understandable that as society changes people feel threatened. It was the same with the suffrage movement, segregation, women’s liberation and so on.
I wish all participants in this issue the best. I believe that working together a fair and equitable arrangement can be made. I hope that a classification remains for Women’s athletes and a classification can be found for trans athletes. I hope in some way this could be combined for the sake of inclusion and the betterment of society while at the same time having results separated because of the possible advantages biology can provide.
As a 53 year old male I feel that my opinion really does not matter and will now exit this discussion.
Please be respectful 
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Well said!
I’d like to know how non-athlete trans women feel about other trans women competing against cis women and potentially making negative headlines.
Anyone know?
No, I understand perfectly what you are saying. I just don’t agree with it.
And there is the rub….it really isn’t “objective”. What you consider “ objective” is simply two neat little boxes. It just isn’t that simple.
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My man, please tread carefully. I have a gender nonconforming child. The suicide comes with parents who try to beat and otherwise deny kids of expressing themselves. My child isn’t transgender but I have tremendous sympathy for people who identify as such as well as the parents of those folks. To accuse doctors or even parents of abuse is frankly insulting
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Friend, I have nothing but love for you and your child and I simply say my views of what I think is best. I wish your child would love him or herself for how they were born. I know it isn’t always easy and mental health is real. But I think the best way to address it is to realize we are all so different and thats ok. They don’t need to conform with what society thinks. Unfortunately the doctors try to have them conform with surgery or drugs and I think thats wrong.
Cheers fella. It’s crazy that we’re having to even have this conversation. I dread for children of the future.
No. It is because they are under attack, nearly every moment of every day, for being who they are and feeling how they feel. Imagine the damage that would do, and how easy it would be to fall into a dangerous depression.
The last few replies in this thread illustrate the difficulty of having the debate about sports. If you simply don’t recognize the right of trans people to exist, how is it possible to have a discussion in good faith about sports participation?
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Well, women couldn’t run the Boston Marathon until 1972. Let’s not get on a high horse talking about how great women in sport have had it historically.
I’m sure women (trans and cis) will appreciate you mansplaining why men allowed them to participate in their own way.
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This is not correct. I am an archaeologist and I can tell you that there is in fact plenty of evidence that people at different times and in different parts of the world had very different understandings of gender than we do now. How do we know this? Well, one way is to analyse the sex of the skeleton in relation to how the person was buried. There are numerous examples where people are buried in ways that did not conform to their sex, e.g.
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/09/2017/viking-warrior-from-birka-grave-confirmed-as-female
We also know of cases where the sexual development of juveniles was deliberately altered, for example through castration.
This doesn’t necesarily mean that these gender- or sex-non conforming people were Trans in the way we understand it now. I’m simply pointing out that past societies have often not had straightforward gender distinctions. Biology is only one component.
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That was simple sexism. There’s nothing wrong with men and women competing in the same race such as the Boston Marathon because you can easily have different prizes for men and women.
There is the world of difference between that and having men posing as women in a women’s sports and stealing 1st place along with the prize money, sponsorship deals etc. There’s also the world of difference between that and allowing men into women’s rugby, American football, MMA etc and severely injuring women with their male advantages.
I’m not saying these so called ‘trans women’ can’t compete, I’m simply saying that they’re not actual women defined by XX chromosomes and should thus compete alongside their fellow men or have their own dedicated ‘trans women’ category. The latter is the best solution for all involved.
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Invisible Women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men Invisible Women - Google Search
I am pro trans rights and have compassion for people going through the process of change.
I believe that in supporting trans people, it is important that society does not strip away the experience of cis women.
I have not read this book yet, but my 20 something daughter told me about it.
It is essentially about how men have controlled the means of production and created a world which works for them.
My daughter’s (cis women) colleagues had decided to boycott this book because it did not mention trans women (it did not exclude, just did not mention). The whole point of the book is how the world is built around male needs and this makes it more difficult for cis women.
My daughter carefully talked it through (work is a dangerous environment to talk about trans Vs cis needs) Her colleagues have decided to read the book so they can have an informed opinion.
I hope and believe that there are many trans women who will see a way of protecting their own rights whilst standing side by side with their cis sisters.
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You keep using terms like “ simple” and “easy”. The only thing that is simple or easy about this is the desire to keep people classified as one of two genders. It is so much more complicated than that.
I am not going to respond to your charges of child abuse, etc. IMO, they show a lack of understanding on the facts of the subject. Many trans people never have surgery and no one is doing it to “little boys”. Your use of the term “castrate” is simply incorrect. No one wants to “castrate” people, so by using that term the discussion just becomes inflammatory. (And please spare me some strict, narrow definition of what “castrate” means)
You speak of the damage done to transgender people, but ignore the emotional devastation they go through having to live their lives according to societal norms and not who they really are.
Your example that you like flowers perfectly illustrates what I am talking about,this isn’t about “hobbies” or activities. It is about who they are on the inside.
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I can’t upvote this enough. “I like flowers so trans women aren’t women” is nonsensical.
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Wouldn’t it solve all problems if trans women were allowed to compete in the mens category?
Yes, you keep saying this. You can repeat this as much as you want….but it doesn’t make it any truer each time you say it.
And there it is…you believe that trans people are mentally ill.
You’ll excuse me if I back out of the conversation now.
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