Training for very long climbs -- Ventoux and Col de la Loz

Training
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Hi. I’m a 57 year old guy who got an amazing present from my wife: We’re spending a week watching several stages of the Tour de France this year and riding portions of them a few hours before the pros hit them … specifically Mont Ventoux and Col de la Loz. We’re going as a group with https://www.mummucycling.com out of Australia (but we’re Americans).

I’d love some advice for how to train for these, both including TR (I am a subscriber) and with anything else to add to it.

Each climb is 5000 ft + of elevation gain with grades between 5 and 15% (mostly 8-10%). I’m not a great climber (174 lbs) but I have decent strength for my age so I can sprint up short, steep hills comparatively fast. But long hills kill me. FTP is 217, max power about 700 watts.

I’m on the Masters Climbing Stage Race plan now and also doing strength work 3 times a week at a gym. In addition, I subscribe to Rouvy so I can do virtual climbs of each of these mountains (done the Ventoux climb a few times already). I’m using Rouvy because I’m afraid that doing 180-220 watts on TR in ERG mode is nothing like doing that same wattage on a. steep climb where you simply cannot crank up the RPM due to the grade. Thus, my theory is that I need even stronger legs and have to get them adapted to holding fairly high (maybe 80% FTP) for 2 hours up an average 8% grade.

Thoughts?

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For fun try 3x30 minutes in ERG targeting 200 watts @ 70 RPM ? That will give you the grinding you’ll need to hold for long periods of time. People don’t like the spiral of death you get in ERG if your cadence bogs down, but that’s actually kind of like climbing a steep climb - if your cadence bogs down you are screwed so you have to keep it steady. Sounds like a great vacay!

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Thank you! That sounds like a good idea; I was thinking along the same line – relatively long periods around sweet spot but being sure to keep the cadence low to simulate a climb.

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Personally I wouldn’t do the climbs I was going to do irl in Rouvy first because I sort of want to get surprised by them (it’s the reason I stopped using Rouvy) but doing low cadence strength workout seems like a good idea. Don’t forget to turn down your fans too because if you are going July/ August it is going to be hot! And of course get the lowest gearing you can get

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Thanks! Good idea about the fan. Yes, the heat and lack of oxygen will definitely be factors I’m not thrilled about. I don’t love heat so will just have to do my best there (lots of bottles with a mix of Skratch regular mix + Skratch Super High Carb mix) and do as much outdoor work in June and July as I can. I live in Seattle so it seldom gets as hot as it will be in France during July. I think that one nice touch in riding with a tour group is that they will hand me bottles during the climb so my fear of running out of drink mix is gone.

As for a surprise factor … I really do prefer to be as well-prepared as possible. I find I do better if I know where the hardest parts are so I can meter my work. Mostly just a mental thing, of course. That’s also why I like the “Climb” feature in my GPS (Wahoo Roam) so I can see how much further there is to go (although that’s not super useful for climbs this long).

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What kind of gearing will you have on the bike? Can you make it easier?

For me, it’s just about doing a solid power, not overdoing it, and stay constant within that range.

I think doing Rouvy for virtual climbs is great. I do the same with Zwift. I might try some of those longer virtual climbs (1 hr+) 80% as you mentioned and see if you can even get to sweet spot range. When you feel like you have trouble doing sustained power on longer climbs, why is that? Low cadence, not enough nutrition, too much exertion relative to FPT, lower back pain, mental focus, something else?

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The pedaling dynamics on a slow climb are definitely different than putting out that same power on flat roads, but it’s still 95% about aerobic power (not strength) for long climbs. I’d suggest looking hard at your gearing and going as low as possible. Everyone’s cadence preference is different, but I personally struggle when cadence drops below 70 rpms for an extended period (and I’d rather climb at closer to 80rpm). Maybe your bike already has great gearing, but your post makes it sound like you are hoping to grind up a multi-hour climb at ~40-50rpm cadence. If that’s the plan, it’s a really, really bad plan (in my opinion). No shame in getting the easiest gearing out there for huge climbs like these. If I were doing those climbs, I’d be on my gravel bike with MTB gearing (10-52 cassette) and that’s with a sea level FTP around 4w/kg. And I’d still probably be wishing for a lower gear at times.

For training, lots of sweet spot and find a longish hill outside with 10+% grades (or as close as you can get) and ride repeats for as long as possible.

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It is way too early to turn down your fans….you want to focus on progressive training to raise your threshold, not watch your numbers drop as you overheat on a trainer. You will have plenty of time to heat train in June.

If you don’t want to do the actual climbs in Rouvy, and there are no long sustained climbs near you, there are plenty of other long climb options in Zwift or Rouvy. Do Alpe d’ Huez, the Glandon, Tourmalet, whatever……anything that lets you do long, sustained tempo / sweet spot efforts.

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Sounds like a brilliant trip.

As other have said, easy gears will make a huge difference, grinding up long climbs, having to put out too much power, won’t end well.

Unless you are very lean already, it’s also worth looking at your diet.

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As a slight aside, don’t forget the effect altitude will have on your ability to produce power. You may well be able to train yourself to hold 200W up Col de la Loze on Rouvy, but your ability to do that IRL above 2000m will be impacted by the reduced oxygen available.

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I’ve done Mt. Ventoux from both sides. What I would recommend is not training specifically sweet spot for the climb but training as much as you can tolerate and recover from (mostly zone 2) so that you can improve somewhat before your trip. It is still a couple of month ahead so there is still time. And it is better to have higher FTP than higher time at SS at a lower FTP.

Also, I would focus on the gearing as others have highlighted. I would target the lightest gear to be able to ride 90 RPM at 70% of FTP at around 10% grade. You can always ride harder gears if in better form on the day :slight_smile:

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FYI, the lack of oxygen shouldn’t be a major issue for you. Both these climbs are sub-8000 feet.

On average you’re losing about 1% of VO2max per ~400ft elevation above 5000ft.

So your VO2max will be maybe 2-5% lower. Most likely not noticeable.

I personally don’t notice the difference till I start getting higher than 8-9000ft, when coming from sea level.

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Welcome to the TR community – that sounds like an amazing trip! I’ve done Ventoux before, but Col de la Loze is on my “to-do” list… That southeastern corner of France is cycling paradise!

There are some great ideas and discussion in here already – I wanted to drop in one TR-specific suggestion, though.

The Climbing Road Race plan will certainly get you into good shape, but it features a lot of surging and shorter, higher-intensity efforts to prepare you for the demands of racing up climbs in a peloton (think of the GC riders attacking/countering each other going up le Ventoux or la Loze). If that kind of riding style suits you, then no problem – the Climbing RR plan will get you ready for that!

If you prefer a steadier pacing strategy, though, and don’t need to worry about surging/responding to attacks while going up the climbs, the Gran Fondo plan might be a better fit. It focuses more on muscular endurance and fatigue resistance and prepares you for (very) long climbs with sustained power efforts.

Here are a couple of example weeks from each plan to give you an idea of what types of workouts each plan features in the Specialty Phase (when you’d be closing in on your target rides):

Masters Climbing RR week:

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Masters Gran Fondo week:

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As you can see, there is some crossover (and the Gran Fondo plan doesn’t entirely do away with surges), but the Gran Fondo plan really emphasizes sustained power work at its core, while the Climbing RR plan sacrifices some of that in favor of some punchier workouts each week to simulate the demands of mass-start/pack racing.

I don’t think there’s a “wrong” plan to choose, and it ultimately depends on how you’d like to approach the climbs – some riders love punching or surging their way up, while others prefer to “TT” up long climbs. In any case, I thought I’d throw that option out there in case you weren’t aware of it.

If you’d like to change your Plan Builder plan to get your Specialty Phases swapped around, you can find the instructions for that here – you’ll be able to change your “Event Type/Discipline” in that Plan Builder flow, which will also change your plan’s Specialty Phase accordingly.

Hope that helps – feel free to let us know if you have any additional questions or if you need a hand making any alterations to your plan moving forward!

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I did Mount Ventoux last July. I’m around 210 ftp for 75kg. The Ventoux is very regular, with a 3km at 11%. I had a 34/32 and i wished i had smaller gear, but it was doable. I did not find any rental with smaller gear over there.

I was self supported, riding to the climbs, and also did 2,5 climbs in one day, so my focus for training was maybe for longer rides that what you will need.

My training was mostly long 4 hours rides z2 and shorter sweetspot. I did a few zwift ventop at 80%, and while the difficulty is similar, you don’t have to be afraid it’s revealing too much of the beauty of the ride. I also did a few loops in kenmore with 10% to 15% climbs. They they are short, like 5min, but repeating them for 2 hours was still fatiguing. There may be longer climbs in Sammamish/cougar mountain.

I’m not sure at what time you will start the rides as you are in a group, but i was starting them at 6am to avoid the heat (10am is already very hot, especially at low speed). I wished i had trained a few times early, with breakfast just before riding.

I did not feel any issue with altitude, but i don’t have a power meter so i don’t know how many watts i was loosing. I was not short of breath at the top when not cycling, it’s below 2000m.

Don’t forget to put some salt in your water there. Heat and low speed will make you sweat a lot.

Enjoy your vacation, it’s a really amazing place and the views are out of this world

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I would second the recommendation for gears as low as you can reasonably get. For 3km at 11% you will likely want some pretty low gears unless you really like very low cadences. If you are renting this could be hard, but is worth shopping around for.
You can find an online calculator where you can use your weight to figure out what cadence you would have at 11% for various power outputs and gear ratios to help guide your planning.

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What an amazing trip! I haven’t ridden in France yet, but I’ve done a number of supported tours in the Italian Alps and the Dolomites, and they are some of the best experiences I’ve ever had. I’m also in Seattle, and have found that when I’m getting ready for these trips, a good supplement to TrainerRoad workouts is Zoo Hill repeats. Since so much of that climb is really steep, it’s a great opportunity to practice the low cadence and body position of a tough climb. When I know I’m going to climb it multiple times, I can’t hammer up the climb and blow myself up (as tempting as it always is to try to set a PR…), so it has been a great way for me to practice breathing, being relaxed, and staying loose on a tough climb, riding with the goal of feeling like I could keep doing that all day long. The bike handling skills of riding really slowly up a 20% pitch are also worth practicing. Have an amazing trip, and I hope you update on how it went!

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Thank you! Yes, I have to admit my concerns about the Climbing plan is what drive me to making the post. I happen to be good at short, punchy sprints (and enjoy them) but I had concerns if it was training me well for a 2-3 hour climb at low cadence ( by low I mean 50-60 rpm likely for me - my normal cadence is between 70-80 unless I’m really making an effort to spin faster).

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Great info! Sounds like our weight and power and similar ( and you live in the seattle area). I’m taking my own bike, a trek madone slr7 gen 6 (2021) with sram axs. Rear is 10/36 and front is 48/35 so not sure I can improve on the gearing. I’m also trying to lose a little weight (lost 4 lbs since Jan … maybe lose another 6 before July). I forgot that zwift had a ventoux clone. Will have a look.

For nutrition, I did some climbs last year in Italy and found that the Skratch high carb mix worked great for me. But that was in April (mornings) so much cooler. I’ve been experimenting with skratch 1/2 high carb, 1/2 hydration and I think that will work for me. I’ve definitely found that I burn a lot of fuel on rides. I don’t know when we ride but I can only imagine it’s morning for both heat and “get off the road well before the pros get there” reasons.

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46/33 is also an option…I am definitely going to go for 46/33 10-36 next summer for the Alpes (had 46/33 10-33 last year)

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Thanks. I like your idea about zoo hill. I’ve done it once about 6 years ago (and Montreaux near it) and definitely did not enjoy it! My initial thought was that it was much steeper than Ventoux so wasn’t planning to tackle it but I’m now reconsidering. It’s also funny that you mention bike handling . … I have terrible balance so very slow speeds are problematic for me and something I am worried about as that’s not something that comes up when you’re on a trainer!

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