I’m not arguing against the “lift heavy” trend, but I will say be careful. If you’re a MAMIL who isn’t used to lifting, going into a strange gym and immediately ramping up the weight in an attempt to meet some goal you read in a forum is a good recipe for injury. I can’t begin to tell you how many people I know who start lifting or doing CrossFit and end up injured fairly quickly (and I speak from personal experience too)
Ease into it. There’s nothing wrong with starting slow and working your way up over time. And if you’re going to go the heavy weight/low reps route, get a coach who can teach you and give you feedback to help you do things in a safer way.
It is a fair warning! I should have said that I started going to the gym with a coach and did that for three years. He was very careful and technique was the number one thing for us. Recently, I’ve returned to the gym just by myself and from zero it took me 2 month to get back to where I was before COVID (only some kettlebell exercises at home in the meantime).
I’m not sure everyone needs to take it that slow but a strength coach is very much recommended.
Keep on posting if you’re making new points or answering questions, IMO.
I had always heard that doing impact activities (running, jumping, etc) stimulated the growth, nothing about strength training. But the paper you linked only related it to load, which the muscles can generate.
the way I’d think of that is in cycling metaphors…if you wanna go 150 watts for a while, it’s probably easier if you have an FTP of 300 than 200.
if you can deadlift 300 lbs, carrying a 30kg box is easier than if you can do 30 pushups and never deadlift. your core and grip will be stronger in addition to your muscles.
same with I’d rather be able to bench 200lbs than do 30 pushups for normal day to day stuff
i don’t see how a renegade row is more “functional” than a deadlift. tbh if you wanna do a row, why not just get a heavy dumbell and do a proper row and get stronger…don’t get the benefit of combining it with a weird one arm balance exercise that mimics nothing in real lift. lifting stuff off the ground with a balanced position is pretty functional imo
squat, bench, and deadlift is as functional as it gets. I would start there with my time. then if you have extra all the kettlebell stuff is awesome - especially turkish getups and movements where you hinge your hips (swings)…and I also love body weight movements - just easier to progressively overload a bar than a pushup. but if you can’t access a bar, yeah you can overload pushups by raising your legs and narrowing your hands - to a certain extent.
I use kettlebells and BW stuff as accessory work at the end of my power lifting sessions. would rather do a pull up than a lat machine. would rather do a dip than a triceps machine. but those are easy enough to progressively overload by adding just a little bit of weight.
also agree with everyone saying to ramp up slowly and carefully…your muscles will develop faster than your tendons and ligaments. and heavy is always relative to you and where you’re at in your training…not a chart that says you should lift x% to be considered “strong”. but “heavy” is never something you can do for 10 minutes or 20+ reps.
pay attention to form / technique. set is over when your technique fails.
It’s not so much about a force that your muscles are producing as it is basically the crushing force on your bones of landing jumps or standing with a big squat on your back. Your bones have cells that basically secrete hormones to stimulate bone growth when they are put under mechanical load. (at least that’s my understanding)
So your muscles work to move your bones around but probably won’t do too much to apply the required mechanical strain to the bones to increase bone density.
How far does this metaphor go?
Is it in spirit of comparing 4.2W/kg with TTE 70min vs 4.5W/kg with TTE 30min? I would really like highest FTP possible but for my cycling goal I need prioritise TTE higher.
Reason why I am wondering, is seeing some local bodybuilder lifting really heavy but he fizzled very quickly out during bodybump session.
Obviously, hanging out at the gym and doing the basic lifts will be highly beneficial and is the gold standard of strength work.
But aside from the fitness benefits, the huge practical advantage of integrating body weight exercises into your fitness routine is you can literally do them anywhere, any time. The only thing keeping you from dropping down and doing a set of push ups or some pistol squats in line at the DMV, in a restaurant while waiting for your meal or in your cubicle at work is embarrassment. You can take a kettle bell with you when you travel (by car, unless you want to put one in a check bag when flying but in that case is might be cheaper to buy one at your destination!). I have taken a kettle bell on road trips several times.
In theory I’d be fitter if I could get myself to spent more time in the gym. But as a practical matter, I have become fitter because I have stumbled onto stuff I can do at home while watching TV.
Just some general things for anyone, from a former bodybuilder and power lifter.
hire a GOOD trainer, not just sounding who took a course, for at least a couple months and learn how to do big multijoint exercises like deadlift and squat correctly.
while lifting heavier and lower reps builds more muscle and promotes more hypertrophy, I encourage you to stay in the 10-15 range as injury prevention.
continuing with that theme, there’s no reason to back squat just about ever. Doing goblet squats let’s you go deep, prioritize the quads, and will all but ensure your back is correctly aligned. I switch between these and front squats, with split squats to work legs individually.
leave your ego at the damn door. Upping the weight by 2.5 pounds and lifting safely is better than adding five but doing it with incorrect form.
Everything else, imo, is debatable and individual.
I dunno the answer to this but nobody cycling 10+ hours a week for years is gonna ever look like a bodybuilder from doing 2 days of weight lifting.
I think my answer would be no matter what you do I don’t see how getting stronger could possibly be a detriment…even in areas of your body that aren’t used for your sport. just to be overall healthier.
as for that bodybuilder, strength is not the top priority for bodybuilders. he might have been cutting down weight for a competition and using that class as cardio. sounds like that class would be challenging for anyone to make it through if it was their first time (or even their first 30 times). i’d put my money on a body builder than a marathon runner though in that situation (using the same weights).
I’d also consider bodypump as cardio and not really strength training.
pistol squats / pushups / kettlebells are infinitely better than zero. fwiw I do the same stuff. when my wife and I walk around, if she goes into a store i’m standing outside with the dogs and doing pushups or deep squats (pistol squat is out of my league but i’m getting there)
there’s a really good reddit forum called bodyweightfitness. it reminds me of this forum in that there is a mix of very fit people, and sciencey / smart / accomplished people who contribute for no reason other than to help others.
they create ways of progressively overloading and getting stronger
Speaking for myself here, I found trying to master pistol squats had some very positive effects curing my leg imbalance. My right leg is a lot more unstable (two knee surgeries will do that for you) and up until I started pistol squats, I had a 55:45 L/R split. Now it is even to 52:48 most of the time.
I’m still far away from a proper piston squat, I’m sitting down on a gym bench (right) or have my lower spine touch the cushion of the gym bench (left). However, the tricky bit isn’t weight, I reckon, but coordination, proper technique and strengthening some stabilizing muscles in the process.
Since this just popped up, I just started at the gym 3 weeks ago because I wanted to improve my cycling performance. I heard the lifting podcast with Derek from Dialed Health on the AACC podcast from a few years ago. I signed up with Dialed Health as it gives me a specific ‘cycling’ strength training workout with videos to show me how to do each exercise.
I’ve found it helpful and since I’m starting in the beginner section of the app, each workout isn’t terribly hard. So I don’t have DOMS or any other issue and I’m excited to go to the gym, I don’t fear it.
I like TrainerRoad because it tells me what I need to do to get faster and the Dialed Health app tells me what I need to get stronger, specifically for cycling.
Honestly just plug your goals, equipment and available time into ChatGPT. Use YouTube to check correct form. Been in and out the gym for 15 years and this approach has given me the best programme I’ve ever had.
Judging from my experience with LLMs in other contexts, the reason you can extract a useful training plan out of an LLM is because of the expertise and experience you have accumulated over 15 years. This is not useful for a beginner.
Agreed. LLMs have been super frustrating to me because everything they say sounds super reasonable but if you don’t already know a certain amount about a topic you won’t be able to know where it goes wrong and why.
I just went over to ChatGPT and entered the following prompt:
build me an off-season lifting plan for criterium and mountain bike racing. I want to lift 2-days a week with access to a fully equipped gym.
And got:
Weekly Structure (2 days)
Day 1 (Strength Focus): Focus on building solid strength and power.
Day 2 (Explosive Focus): More emphasis on speed, power, and endurance.
Day 1: Full-Body Strength Focus
(Compound lifts + accessory work)
Warm-Up (10-15 mins)
Dynamic stretches (leg swings, hip circles, etc.)
Foam rolling (focus on quads, hamstrings, calves)
Light cycling or rowing (5-10 mins) to elevate heart rate
Main Lifts
Back Squat (4 sets of 5 reps): Builds strength in quads, hamstrings, and glutes, important for power output.
Barbell Bench Press (3 sets of 6-8 reps): Focuses on upper body pushing strength (important for sprinting and bike handling).
Pull-Ups (3 sets to failure): Engages back and core, helps with bike control and handling.
Accessory Work
Walking Lunges (3 sets of 12 reps per leg): Great for unilateral leg strength and hip mobility.
Leg Curls (Machine) (3 sets of 10-12 reps): Focus on hamstring isolation.
Plank Variations (3 x 1 min): Engage core stability for efficient bike handling.
Cable Face Pulls (3 sets of 15 reps): Improves shoulder health and posture.
Cool Down (5-10 mins)
Static stretching, focusing on the hip flexors, quads, hamstrings, and calves.
Foam rolling for recovery.
Day 2: Explosive Power Focus
(Plyometrics, Olympic lifts, and cycling-specific core work)
Warm-Up (10-15 mins)
Dynamic stretches
Foam rolling
Light cardio (rowing, cycling, or treadmill)
Main Lifts
Power Clean (4 sets of 3-5 reps): Builds explosive power and engages the entire body.
Front Squat (3 sets of 5 reps): More quad-dominant than back squat and helps with stability and power.
Box Jumps (3 sets of 6 reps): Improves explosive leg power, important for sprinting and climbing.
Dumbbell Overhead Press (3 sets of 8 reps): Targets shoulders and triceps, good for handling the bike.
Accessory Work
Bulgarian Split Squats (3 sets of 8 reps per leg): Focuses on single-leg strength and stability.
Hip Thrusts (3 sets of 10-12 reps): Glute activation for powerful pedal strokes.
Russian Twists (3 sets of 20 reps): Core exercise for rotational stability.
Kettlebell Swings (3 sets of 12-15 reps): Helps with hip explosiveness and endurance.
Cool Down (5-10 mins)
Static stretching
Foam rolling (quads, hamstrings, glutes)
Now not a terrible plan on the face of it. But IMO if you are doing even a moderate amount of cycling with any intensity then this is way way way too much lower body volume. If someone who hasn’t ever lifted went and tried to do that they wouldn’t be able to walk correctly for a week.
IJWTS, I looked at various involved programs with lots of sets and reps and different exercises but I don’t want to spend 1-2 hours in the gym.
I’m obviously a cyclist and my son’s a runner. Last winter I designed a super basic push, pull, squat, hinge program for us. Bench press with a barbell, leg press machine for the squats, row machine for the pull, and kettlebell swings for the hinge. We’d do some other exercises and machines as a bonus.
We just started setting the weight so that we’d reach failure in about 10-12 reps. We’d rotate exercises and could do it all in 30 minutes. We started at twice a week last winter.
We DOUBLED our strength on every machine over 8 weeks.
DOWNSIDE - it was taking me 2-3 days to recover and I couldn’t push the same watts on the bike. So, I just focused on the weights and rode endurance. In January, I started backing it off to two sets and that wasn’t enough. I tried Joe Friels high rep approach with one set - lower weight, 20 reps. That was better so I could recover quickly and maintain.
This past summer I’ve laid off the legs so I can ride and we’ve been going to the gym once a week. I do bench, row, and kettlebells swings and then do just one easy set of squats on the leg machine for maintenance. I’ve also played around with the trap bar dead lift and that was positive. This has worked really well all summer. With maintenance on the legs, I’ve lost none of the strength gained last fall.
Going into the fall/winter again, we are going to back to 2X per week and I’ll go heavier on the legs now and not worry about cycling watts until January or February. After a year of doing strength training it’s all much easier and generates less fatigue.
I guess my basic message for beginners is that you can make beneficial gains with 5 exercises and 30 minutes in the gym. Embrace the newb gains! It’s probably plenty of resistance training to be healthy in life and improve one’s cycling even if you never take it further.
Well, you did say off season, so it’s probably assuming that this is the focus. One thing that I find frustrating with ChatGPT and junior developers is that they frequently don’t ask clarifying questions when they’re unsure.
Agreed. The above plan could easily be fixed with further prompts.
If you asked it, is it wise to have squats and deadlifts next to each other in a single session as you are concerned about fatigue and you are still cycling during the week it would likely split your full body sessions into a squat focussed day and a deadlift focussed day.
For reference, I ONLY do heavy legs on hard interval days. The old mantra - make your hard days hard, and easy days easy. I also aim to have a rest day after leg day if possible. By doing this, once past the newb DOMS, you can still train legs with nearly no impact on training, assuming you are only doing two interval workouts a week and other days are mostly Z2. I usually make Tuesdays an interval day and leg day. That way I’m recovered from my long weekend ride (sometimes Z2 on Monday still).
