Adding on to what Nathan said above - Everyone is different, some people will tend to be more ‘fast twitch’ and others ‘slow twitch’. If you are a beginner maybe you just don’t know enough about your strengths and weaknesses, but over time you’ll know where you sit.
For me personally the Threshold workouts are the hardest from a RPE perspective. My FTP is set to 311 in TR and I can knock out V02 workouts at PL levels of 7-8, and Anerobic workouts with PLs 10+, but to get past a PL of 5 or so in Threshold is an exercise in suffering, and I’m talking about the ones that are ‘shorter’ intervals (like “Smith -2”) not the long blocks (like ‘Jupiter’). I think the highest PL I’ve made it there is low 6.x or so.
The good thing about AI FTP is even if you are not in the center of the bell curve it will see you doing well or poorly and will adjust your workouts up or down, and periodically drive your FTP setting up or down.
Just to illustrate as other people have mentioned that LTHR/threshold heart rate varies, my max heart rate (as far as I know) is 179 and my threshold heart rate is at least 165 (I’ve never quite done the test for this of 30 minute effort, taking the average HR for the last 20 minutes, but that’s where it stands from my hardest efforts so far–since I haven’t really pushed myself to a 30 minute effort, it could be slightly higher).
That is where my HR ends up during threshold workouts most of the time, though there are cases where something is off. And that’s the other thing to mention–FTP isn’t really just one number. If for some reason you’re having a bad day (e.g. too much fatigue) that could explain both higher than LTHR heart rate if you really knew what it is, and high RPE.
My first workout after a rest week isn’t always up to par if it’s a higher intensity workout.
If you are just using a guesstimate of your LTHR, I wouldn’t let it bother you that you did a workout at threshold and were above the estimated HR. Not to mention that your HR can vary based on lots of outside factors.
Example: I have a tested LTHR 158, that I’m pretty comfortable with it being right on the money the majority of the time. I took a 2 hour mtb ride yesterday, and spent 1:45 above my LTHR (avg HR was 160 bpm for the whole 2 hours; stopped once early, plus eased pace to let it recover to bottom of z4 at top of climbs 3 times). I did beat my previous PR for the 26 miles by over 5 minutes. I chalk the high HR up to that 3/4 of a pizza I ate right before the ride . Point is, I’m not going to adjust my HR zones because of one ride, nor will I tweek my FTP because of it.
agree with you, it’s one data point, across a season of data points. Especially with HR.
@Bobcat6 I’m trying to piece this picture together so let me know if this is correct.
Rough hr zones you’re looking at on a 180 max :
Threshold → 160 - 169
Vo2 Max → 171 → 178
Last block you were around 166-167 for threshold.
During this workout you were up to 176-177.
Your recent FTP bump was 3 watts.
If this data is roughly correct:
Lets do some napkin math. By the numbers, this workout would be on the lower end of vo2 max as a % of ftp because of the duration, so call it a 108% effort. That would mean your ftp is roughly 197.
You also said that during your last block, where your ftp was 210, you were doing threshold efforts at a 166-167, which is well within range.
Don’t focus on a single workout, especially on highly variable numbers of a single workout. Log this data point, write some notes on the workout, continue your training as per the plan. If you continue to struggle then that’s cause for concern, and all this past data will be immensely helpful in moving foward.
I think most people would recommend against going from a low volume base to a mid volume build if you’re currently struggling with workouts. Are you training for a specific event?
It’s important to remember how blunt of a tool is FTP. There is some really wild variation within riders - people naturally great at sprints, naturally great at endurance, naturally great at VO2 max, none of whom may be able to ride for 30-70 mins at “FTP.” It means little. FTP is simply a workout index number. Sounds like it’s high time you moved on from thinking about it as your “hour power.” If you want a high hour power, that’s a specific skill or goal. Referring to FTP as hour power glosses over the fact that it is an extrapolation and nothing more.
Again, I disagree, although I agree with “not as important” just do not agree with “you don’t need to worry about it if following a TR plan”
Still important with AT, but maybe less so than back in the day. Because of the structure of PLs and workout selection is in silos, it can be very ineffective if your aiftp or ftp is set incorrectly, 5 watts doesn’t matter but if it more extreme it is simply incorrect to say it doesnt matter.
I know people, believe it, but belief isnt a truth.
Actually he’s right, you don’t ever need to worry about it. I bet there is a number of TR staff who wish it didnt exist lol. It’s hard to wrap your brain around the fact that it is a made-up number, but it is.
Also your PM no matter how well zero’d is off more than 5 watts day to day. Something more like 10-15 probably. Scrutinizing things in such detail is a yelling at the wind.
thanks
. Point is, I’m not going to adjust my HR zones because of one ride, nor will I tweek my FTP because of it.