Thanks for the kind words. It wasn’t clear that you felt that way based on your comments in this thread. We do appreciate your support.
Regarding the topic of intervals that result in one reaching VO2 Max, I was genuinely asking if you see a difference in the two quotes I’ve mentioned. I haven’t seen anything in this thread from you in this regard other than that you can improve your VO2 Max through training volume, and that TrainerRoad’s method of training in the VO2 Max power zone is wrong when it comes to improving VO2 Max.
When someone calls us out on doing something fundamentally wrong we like to at least hear why they think so!
Believe me, I spend enough time on this forum and have no interest in playing “gotcha” games with other users either.
My #1 goal here is to make sure that there’s good information on the forum for users who are looking to learn.
TrainerRoad uses “VO2max” to describe Coggan power level 5, as do many, many, many cycling platforms, and it’s become part of our vernacular. My only point in saying that is that just because you spend time riding in power level 5 does NOT mean you are training VO2max. That is not unique to TrainerRoad. The way the company has chosen to use progression levels and some of the tradeoffs you’ve made to work with AIFTPD, PL, ML, etc., all kind of force you into progressing people in the VO2max “zone” or “energy system” (TR’s words, not mine), when some of the workouts that hit level 5 don’t do anything to train VO2max.
Of course there are other ways to train and improve VO2max other than riding high volume, and I’ve covered that in a couple of the VO2max threads on this forum. Given this thread is not about that, as I said in one of the posts you’re referring to, a discussion about how to train central and peripheral adaptations to the physiological property of VO2max is best had elsewhere.
So again, this is NOT a problem that is unique to or caused by TrainerRoad. It’s a simple “zone” misnomer that is broadly applied throughout cycling, TR is just following suit. I understand many of the reasons TR does stuff like this because what the company is doing is pretty dang hard to do for tens of thousands of individuals. Tradeoffs must be made.
I have referred a number of potential clients to TrainerRoad when it becomes evident that full-on coaching isn’t really what they need or want. I steer people here for discussions. I’m here to learn and share knowledge and have been since the first day this forum opened. I am a former user of TR; I am open about my positive opinions of TR, I help people use the platform when I can. I’m not here poach clients. I have never solicited anyone here publicly or via DM nor will I ever. Please keep that in mind.
@kurt.braeckel I can only say from a personal point of view that I hugely appreciate all your input in the forum and find you one of the most helpful and informative people on here, in this thread, the V02 thread and the sweet spot progression threads in particular!
You are 100% correct with your comments, most of the lower levels PL TR V02 workouts are going to do nothing for V02 (unless brand new) except maybe give you confidence for ‘proper v02’ work!
Ditto, I think most people following this thread, the sweet spot progression and the vo2 max ones aren’t following a TR plan.
That being said, I wouldn’t say it’s a knock on the product at all. Some of us are trying different things while using the TR workouts and calendar which is one of the best out there. IMO
I chased one today that was 27s long, had a tailwind (which is common) but running my slow as hell training setup complete with bar bag and also did it 3h30m into my ride. Got 3rd so not too bad for an old guy!
(Coach does NOT endorse KOM hunting during endurance rides. )
My experience has been that long threshold intervals are hard to find the road for. I’ve preferred those shorter, higher intensity ones because I can do essentially hill repeats. That’s not to see they’re better, just easier to manage, for me.
Because they build a lot of fatigue but aren’t particularly productive if you need to train threshold, or if you’re trying to train VO2max. You’re not spending much time at VO2max. You’re not pushing your endurance. You’re definitely building metabolic byproducts and feeling a burn… but…
All this sounds eerily reminiscent of what people say/said about tempo but it’s not true. Are you suggesting there’s another gray/no go zone for training?
yeah you’re getting fatigue while not really working TTE or vo2 effectively, I’d trust kurt over your suggestion here lol like I might do something like that as a race specific prep type of thing but not in a training block
