You can look up the Seiler study and read it. It has been discussed many times.
They compared 4x4, 4x8, and 4x16. The intervals were “iso power” - maximum but for the whole set rather than max for each interval with a decreasing power.
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I just finished my extensive threshold progression (shooting for 95%).
Started at 4x10 and finished off with 4x20.
I’m in my rest week now and feel like my zone 2 is +20 watts. First workout of next week will be a KM FTP test.
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2x33 at 100% tonight. But, having prioritized tte, I have failed to do any specificity going into my first stage race next week. Will have to figure out how to add that in as I look to my A race in April.
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This seems like a good thread for opinions. I’m taking two weeks off from strength training, which is my hardest workout of the week and crushes my legs for two or three days. I’ve been doing 5x3 vo2 on Tuesday; 90 min Z2 Wednesday, 30 minute tempo/SS effort on Thursday (50 min Z2 preceding it then 10 min cool down); then gym on Saturday with 1.5 hour Z2 afterwards and on Sunday.
I was originally thinking of doing 30 min SS (90%) Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday with Z2 Wednesday and Sunday but now thinking why not four or five days per week for these two weeks before getting back into the gym. Anyone do SS five days per week for a very short block? How did you feel? I’d rate these 30 min efforts as 7.5 they’re difficult but definitely doable. Biggest issue is staying seated for 30 minutes things get a bit numb.
Assuming your FTP is vaguely correct, what you’re suggesting is to do 30 minutes at 90% at a duration at which you should be able to hold 100%. You’ll burn some calories, but I don’t think much else will happen.
I think it’d be better to do more time in zone for SS a couple of times a week than 30 minutes 4 or 5 times a week. You need some progression too.
Of course that depends on whether you have the time to spend 2 hours on the bike to push your SS out to, say, 3 × 30 or 1 × 60 + 1 × 30.
For the numbness, just go up a couple of gears and stand for 15 seconds every so often.
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I suppose I could switch to 20 min, stand for 1 min, 20 min and call it 40 min TIZ. For those pushing 2x30 or 3x30 how much stronger - i.e. diesel power - have you felt? This year I want to increase my volume outdoors in the spring from 8-11 to 12-15 so I could see doing a couple long SS efforts each week. At 130 pounds my engine is a 4 cylinder hybrid so converting to diesel would be useful overall.
Are you an old person like what I am?
If so, sprinkling in VO2s is probably a good shout.
If you’re just a young pup - probably no need.
Probably not. I doubt your VO2 will move at all if you do a dedicated threshold block. You’re still a pup at mid-thirties. 
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I agree with Helvellyn on your SS progressions - fewer workouts but make them progressive/challenging. If you don’t have time for SS, do threshold?
Off-Topic:
Gym then endurance on Sat - go listen to AACC Pod 341/345. Chad said strength then endurance on same day doesn’t boost endurance. I don’t know what the source is & therefore quality of that advice. So maybe swap those workouts with a min 3hr gap.
If you’re doing gym once a week and it’s not your primary focus, perhaps drop the intensity a bit, or split into two sessions. If you’re getting trashed legs, you’re probably not progressing your strength or your endurance.
So the first week has been T, R, S: 1x30 min. Next week will be: T, R 1x41 min (20 min, stand 1 min, 20 min), S back to leg strength training + endurance ride. My legs really don’t recover from Saturday gym work until Wednesday, and if I want to ride hard twice a week it needs to be Tuesday and Thursday, but the VO2 intervals I did for 6 weeks just stagnated at 3-1/2 min intervals, so I’ll stick with these longer efforts. Don’t need to be fully recovered from the weights to push the lower power numbers and it’s still a very solid workout. Definitely takes concentration and effort, but doesn’t get anywhere near the eyes bugged out, teeth bared effort of the final minute of a VO2 max interval.
OT re: weights, I disagree with the assessment that strength training hinders endurance. I could go into why but I think many people watching this thread already know my thoughts on this and I don’t want to annoy them. I’ll just say that between personal experience in my 20s and the fact that studies are all over the place concerning this topic (there are innumerable variables involved and, to be honest, many studies incorporate terrible protocols), I know that a properly designed strength training program will increase pedaling power and endurance. Just needs to be done right.
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Which begs the question… what strength-training programs for cyclists – or ideally, triathletes – do experienced members of this community recommend highly as being “done right”?
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I got +10 watts out of my threshold progression. The block was four weeks. I think three weeks would have been fine as the last couple of workouts didn’t feel very productive. I actually felt that 10 watt bump after the first couple of workouts because everything afterwards seemed easier.
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It interesting to ponder about what type threshold training can complement better the training for someone doing a good sweet spot progression (90% ftp).
A. Classic long intervals at 100%
B. Short Intervals (4-5 min) at 105-107%
The argument for A is to learn to feel your threshold well and extend your TTE. While the argument for B is to pull your threshold up while doing the extensive work underneath with SST.
I see the merits to both positions 
Why not incorporate both?
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Not a bad idea, however it’s hard to add another progression on top of SST, THR, Vo2. I think your point is valid and I can stack a simultaneous threshold progression on consecutive weeks.
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Why?
I guess racers need to learn to handle physically and mentally lactate buildup. But for non-racers, are there any other benefits?
I usually try to avoid dealing with it:
- either stay on safe side, 95-97% of FTP and drag intervals as long as possible (a la 1x70min, or 2x40min), or
- for VO2max, go way above threshold and deal with lactate only for short duration (a la 5min intervals at 115%+ or even higher intensities with shorter intervals)
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Two and a half weeks after testing my TTE at 40min at 350W, I just completed 1x60. Did 2x25min, a couple hard 30/30 days and lots of easy z2 riding at 190-210W in between, so not that much progression needed. It seems that just riding 13-15h per week mostly easy is enough at the moment to see good gains in TTE
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stop being good, it’s giving your coach a big ego lol
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