This looks super interesting and I’m looking to give it a go. Where do you usually factor in a rest week if at all?
Depending on when you need it, but I usually deload a little every 4 to 5 weeks. I might still continue threshold build, but reduce other stress (Sweetspot instead of VO2, 2hr base instead of 4).
I have been doing a self coached threshold block and am currently on my penultimate week before a recovery week. My progression was: wk1: 2x20, wk2: 2x25 and wk3: 2x30. I felt pretty good with the 2x25 and have pushed on to 2x30 earlier than expected and i completed them without thrashing my self. The intervals are done at 95% FTP.
Should I continue to push the TIZ to maybe 2x35 or hold at 2x30 and add for spme more watts. Thoughts.
What are your goals and whats happening the rest of the ‘season’ for you? Given its mid Sept, do you have any more races or events this year or are you, like me, about to head into a winter base building programme?
Edit - also wondering what your TTE is at FTP? In other words, has your TiZ in these workouts exceeded your original TTE yet? You may also want to do a test to see if your FTP or TTE have improved yet? If not, maybe keep going with more TiZ and longer/more intervals at the same %
My goal really is to work on my Weaknesses I guess. I’m largely anearobic based power outputs with a low sustained power. I have just had my last race of the season a couple of days ago and I’ll have my end of season break the first 2 weeks of November and then get back into more building as I like to do group rides and not alot of structure in the summer.
I havent done a TTE test as im not sure of a testing method/protocol due. I was planning on testing at the start of week 5 straight after recovery week and going from there. I’ll keep repeating threshold stuff until I stop seeing gains and then do a Vo2 block and go again ideally.
This thread might be a good start for the testing ideas - its a HUGE read but basically what you need to know is in the linked article and there is a TR Team you can join where Alex has already created custom workouts for the tests themselves…
Basically ride at about 95% of your expected FTP for 10 mins and then ramp up to 100% of your target FTP and ride until your legs fall off Its a great threshold workout anyway!
Idea being that if you have a TTE of mybe 35 mins (which he reckons a lot of people start around), then doing 2x30m is probably a good session, but if your TTE is already 50-60 mins then 2x30 @95% is not really going to create any overload and you need to go longer or work at 100% etc. From what you said about sustained power being a weakness it might be worth increasing intensity slightly to just under 100% and focussing on pushing the TiZ further beyond your TTE - but test first and then in a few weeks to set a baseline and measure progress.
I’m not a TR subscriber and don’t have access to a workout builder/library to do the KM test. I may have to get the old pen and paper out.
I feel like my TTE is around 45 mins but I don’t know for sure. After setting a baseline I will have a better idea of where I’m at.
I forgot to ask. Is there a specific ramp rate for the final part?
You absolutely don’t need the TR workout to do the test - I even think it’s not the best way to do the it anyway. Just read KM’s article about FTP testing on traininpeaks. There are a couple of variations, but essentially you start at a power slightly below your FTP for a couple of minutes, then ramp it up to where you feel you’re at FTP, and keep pedalling as long as you can. If that seems too long, you can start ramping up slowly to higher power after about 30 mins, until you have to stop.
This is the workout that supposed to be done by feel. If you hit the power number that you feel is sustained for a long time - go with it. You can slightly increase the effort over time to feel if higher power changes your breathing and overal feeling. If it’s too much - lower the power. Your breathing should be stable but legs should be working hard and tired at the end.
Full article here:
Once you’re satisfied with your TTE I think this is a good time to start supra-threshold work to help raise FTP. 3x10, 4x8, 5x7, stuff like that. Go for durations that you can hold 105-110% of FTP at. Not quite VO2max, but definitely above FTP.
For me doing the extensive FTP work doesn’t seem to add watts to my threshold, it just pushes out my TTE–I need to go above FTP to see the watts increase.
And more low-intensity aerobic work! Can never do too much of that. I’m currently running into a volume limitation problem where I have enough time per week to do a couple 60-90 min interval sessions and one aerobic ride of similar duration, but getting a ride or two over 3-4 hours is tough…thusly my FTP has sort of plateaued.
I like you also find that I respond well to supra-threshold work (up to a point). I was curious, how much time in zone do you progress the supra-threshold work?
What I will do is start with a Seiler style 4x8 session and see how that goes. The goal will either be repeatability (4x8 becomes 5x7 or 5x8) or raw power. If the latter, I’ll just ride the 4x8 again but at a higher wattage, hopefully. Not sure which is more optimal for FTP development.
You can use the workout creator at Trainer Day to make all of these workouts in about 10 seconds.
Alright, first 4x8 session in the books. Final workout on week 3 of a loading week. I was curious to see what would happen to my FRC after these intervals and it tanked. That’s good!
Side note: FTP currently @ 310, but given 4x8’s were done @ 346, 340, 346, and 353 has me wondering if it’s time to re-test.
Used to feel the same. Its wasn’t you, and it wasn’t your ftp. it was old TR library and plans in my opinion. Give new ones a shot! The new library and plans with the progression level has made over unders MUCH better on TR. The progression on the old workouts were a full mental and physical commitment that tested my livelihood, manhood, commitment to cycling, … oh my GOD here we go . .
@Aeroiseverything what is your rest for your threshold workouts?
Sorry, a couple of Q’s about this pic for intervals:
- How do you configure the intervals to show NP oppose to avg watts (or you show all there)
- Is this outside? Your power is really smooth given the undulating terrain profile
- Is that bottom graph FRC (or xert MPA)? How did you configure that in intervals for a given ride?
Using intervals.icu, there’s a bunch of settings at the bottom of your ride page that allow you change what is displayed. Message me if you need help,
This was an outdoor ride with the intervals done on mostly flattish terrain, a couple sections are slightly downhill and uphill. When that happens I either shift or adjust cadence/speed in order to maintain power—it’s harder to do this going downhill.
FRC is the bottom green graph
How are we for supra-threshold and over and under - would you classify these types of workouts as threshold? - In the sense, would you have standard threshold and O/U or supra-threshold in the same week?
I find TR recommends a lot of supra-threshold work which I really struggle with - particularly those 10min @ 105% - Would I be better of working at 100% but focus on TIZ? I notice there isn’t really those ‘classic’ threshold workout (2x20 @ 100% etc) in my SSBLVII and SPBLV - it’s mostly over-under and supra-threshold work.
I generally don’t fail workouts but I find these supra-threshold workouts really derail my training - but can see that its very beneficial so would like to know how I can best incorporate it into my training plan.
For context I ride MTB - I prefer marathon style - but there is only standard XCO type events where I live - Generally my focus on building a big engine/ FTP as I am new to taking this sport more seriously.