I have had a mixed season with some okay results but the races i want to do well in, i pretty much fail.
I did la marmotte actually feeling good finishing, but i do not normally race these long races.
The races i want to do good in are between 2.30 - 4 hours of rolling hils, and here is my problem:
I try to stick with the front group, but after 30 minutes it gets to hard. I still try to stick but eventually i make it some times for 2.30 hours and sometimes for 1 hour, where i blow up and get a lot of cramps.
Its categorized with a high tempo/threshold effort the first maybee hour together with some kick up the hills going vo2 range.
I have tried to do well again and again but i fail almost every time.
How can i focus my training for the next year - what would be the best approach from a training standpoint.
( i got the fueling and equipment dialed, this is not the problem. I can easily digest +100carbs an hour and do so)
This roadman podcast episode might be useful in some small way.
It is an interview with Mark Cavendish’s coach
The answer to your question is likely a mixture of more longer rides, more TTE extending workouts and - a key point made in this podcast - riding as efficiently as you can in the races.
I assume you have covered the basics, like nutrition/hydration/sleep/training/recovery, and don’t forget efficient riding
Maybe just accept that the other guys have more time to train or have more talent (or both)… It’s a game where a small difference will always add up, specially over longer races.
Winning has some luck part, if the stars align for someone, it’s not always the best that wins, but getting dropped structurally, it’s just not your level.
Therefore I personally like the more individual MTB races… sure if you want to win you need to be and stay at the front, but you can always ride your own pace and finish for example around the top 25%. You are not getting dropped and be done.
Maybe gravel is a bit in between, more groups and drafting, but not as much as with road cycling
I had the exact same struggles staying with the front group. For me, focusing on volume and raising my CTL was the answer. I struggled when my CTL was peaking in the 70s for years. However, once I was able to maintain it in the 100+ I was a different man. No special plans or workouts, just raising my CTL and learning how to taper it into races (14 races this year so far).
My FTP didn’t change much, but my ability to exploit my FTP was huge. I went from stuggling to hang on and getting dropped to feeling stronger as the hours went on. This is in races that lasted 2:15-3:30 hours and a couple longer 5-7 hour races as well. I had a huge breakthrough year beyond my expectations.
@ivegotabike Thanks i will give it a listen! @Michael_D I will be doing more in winter, but have been training a couple of times a week.
@nvalphen You are problary hitting the nail more than i would like to think But i do have about 7 hours to train now a days, and with all the structure i do, i would have hoped for more. The talent thing i will not accept
I did the marmotte in my own tempo, and that was indeed far more pleasing in the end, but i do also like to race.
@MI-XC Did you race the CTL by adding more time or how did you do? How did you train? would love to hear
If you’re riding an hour at this intensity, including vo2 surges then you’re getting dropped because the power requirements are beyond your capabilities
If you can’t lower the power requirement (positioning, tactics, aerodynamics, weight loss) then you have to raise the power capabilities
I might’ve missed it, but what has your training approach been in the past several seasons? Average volume? Intensity distribution?
Almost certainly this will need to change as you’ll need new/different stimulus to get the adaptations. Also almost certainly impossible to say how it should change without knowing where you’re coming from
Try riding with a pack that’s more within your capabilities so that you don’t blow up. Unless you’re going to add a big percentage increase in your training volume, I don’t suspect you will get that much fitter. It’s typically not a matter of doing this workout type over that over, but rather a case of adding significant time to your training calendar. So if you don’t have the bandwidth to up your volume noticeably, you should consider changing your expectations and race strategy
I am about 7 hours a week. I did marmotte in the summer, so i have been doing quite some long rides and been following the mid volume base and build(sustained).
After marmotte in june i have been doing 2 days of intensity ( either criterium, or vo2 max ) and also some races 3-4 hours.
Don’t underestimate aerodynamics and weight, not just power. If you’re struggling on hills and have some weight to lose, that could be an area of focus this winter. Aerodynamics is also key when it comes to riding in a break away since the speeds can be very high. Are you able to ride comfortably in a very aero position? IE, back flat and elbows bent, head down, etc. Knowing how to be efficient in the group and stay sheltered can also be something to work on if you aren’t great at it.
There is way more to racing than just making power or doing training rides.
Look at the people who are finishing these races at the sharp end.
Find out what you can about their training.
If you find that they are all only doing 7 hours per week, then the answer to your original question could be different than if you find they are all doing 14 hours per week (or more).
It’s unlikely that the people you are racing against are spending 2+ hours at sweet spot for this long. They are probably working much less hard than you are.
Unless you are doing hero pulls the whole time, or have no idea to draft, the main thing is probably these are just much stronger riders than you. They probably have a much larger aerobic base than you and a higher FTP. What’s high tempo for you may be comfortable z2 for them.
i do have about 7 hours to train now a days, and with all the structure i do, i would have hoped for more
Volume is king, not structure. Volume is like 80-90%. Structure is the last 10-20%, and even then, I think most of that comes from the enforced consistency more than anything else.
7-hours a week is relatively low volume in the grand scheme of competitive cycling. Especially if you’re in Europe.
Basically what I’m saying is that the most likely reason you’re struggling is that the people you are competing with may train 2x as much per week as you have time to, and probably have an FTP that’s significantly higher than yours.
Increasing durability/fatigue resistance can help somewhat.
But no amount of superior fatigue resistance will help if you’re racing for 4h against someone who’s riding low z2, and you’re doing sweet spot the whole time.
My days of hanging at the front are gone, but the hardest lesson I had to learn when I could was riding efficiently. Looking for the best draft, not pulling too hard or too long, not dropping it all to zero dropping back, not using better gearing when in the pack, not taking advantage of opportunities to recover even if only for a minute, and not using the most efficient gear for pulling. It may not make a massive difference, but could definitely be a tool to hang longer and not fall off. Before I woke up, I would burn myself out trying to compete with people in the peloton/group. The aim of the peloton isn’t necessarily to blow everyone up, and yet they will usually sit there and let you do it.
For me, volume is the key to building the durability required to hang deeper into races. My FTP will hit a plateau at around 8-10 hours of training per week, but I can dramatically improve my ability to ride longer at a high percentage of FTP by putting in longer hours. I focused primarily on volume in my prep for Unbound this year and pushed ~.9 IF for the first couple hours of unbound and held .72 IF for the entire day (~11.5 hours). My FTP wasn’t significantly higher than when I trained at lower volume, but I would be blown up after 2 hours at .9IF if not training big volume.
In gravel races, I’ve found that you have to be able to go really hard for the first 2-3 hours to stay with the lead group (or at least the fastest group possible), but you still need the fitness/durability to keep racing once things settle down. In road racing, it’s usually much easier to stay connected early, but you still need the fitness deep into races or you’ll get dropped (or just won’t be competitive at the end). I have the opposite problem as the OP, I struggle to stay connected in the first hour of the race when it goes out hot. If I can survive the first 2 hours, others start to tire out and it gets much easier for me. I pride myself on having Cat 4 power but with Cat 1 endurance. There are a lot of guys who can beat me in short ~3 hour races, but I’ll beat those same guys in the longer stuff.
I’m not sure where you got the impression that 7 hour weeks was going to get you into the lead pack. That’s simply not enough volume unless it’s the end of the season and you’re riding down your CTL. I’d say 10-12 hours is minimum realistic volume (non-recovery week) to expect you can stay with the lead pack. Otherwise, maybe reset your expectations to top 25% or so.
Any time I was surprised at someone finishing over me in a race, I would click on their strava profile where it shows you at a quick glance their annual hours vs. yours. Inevitably they had almost always been putting in more hours than me.
To second this, there are potentially more gains out of aero vs. training. Putting out watts in aero is not natural for most people and takes training. Achieving the necessary flexibility does take some concerted effort over the off-season to build up the core and loosen up pinch points. Basically, yoga stuff. Just be careful once you can hold the position to not go too far above tempo power or you can really mess up your back putting out big watts for an extended time while horizontal.
Yep. There was an EF coaching podcast where Jonathan Vaughters (I think) said it was more important to prioritize training to ride in an aero position than focusing on power. Pretty crazy.
Wow okay, a lot of great answers, thank you all.
Been looking at some of the strava files of the other ones, and it do look like most of them are doing 10 hour weeks.
To recap, what i know i have in place:
The structure
The Nutrition
The Sleep
The recovery
What i do have in place, but could be more tweaked/ focused on:
Efficiency / aero ( i am one of the better ones for sure on this, BUT did ride a lot of the corners in the back end and had to bridge back up)
Strength training
What i dont have the past season, and need to focus on:
But i do have about 7 hours to train now a days, and with all the structure i do, i would have hoped for more. The talent thing i will not accept 
