The theoretics of Zone 2 riding

Are you guys doing these long rides outdoor or on the trainer?
Based on my test results I need to dial back the intensity too.

Long ride outdoor. 1.5-2 hr Zone 2 rides, either way.

Some people can, and I’m NOT one of those people. My longest trainer ride is 3 hours. Outside for the win!

Yeah i do them, but i still want answer to my question :slight_smile:

I did answer! :grinning: My butt doesn’t like doing long rides on the trainer. However if you can handle it, then doing long rides on the trainer is good. I did a 2 hour z2 this past weekend and had less than 2 minutes coasting, so my long rides outside are nearly as “time efficient” as doing them on the trainer. Your mileage may vary.

I’m doing almost all my riding on the trainer, including the long ride at 4-4.5 hours. Its not comfortable, but I am sure I benefit from the relentlessness of it.
I’m yet to see progress from all the Z2 I’ve been putting in, but its still only been 4 weeks…

There is no consensus within the community (overall, not just this forum) about whether breaking up rides in the manner you are describing is equally beneficial, a little bit less, etc. It is likely not stupid :-). Runners do it as a matter of course. But you are almost definitely not getting the benefits of Z2 that are driven by session duration. Not all the benefits of Z2 are driven by session duration though.

Volume is king, so I would do 2x1.5hr separate rides rather than a single 1.5hr ride. But as to whether you are simply taking advantage of slightly tired legs so that a shift in muscle recruitment happens sooner in the second ride is debatable. It’s almost definitely not better in terms of training fat utilization, as that seems to be a function of continuous time at (most) sub-threshold intensities (e.g. @bbarrera 5+ hr long ride that wasn’t only Z2, but was almost definitely mostly tempo and below. The key there isn’t the intensity–within reason, it’s well below threshold—it’s the duration).

As such, I would hesitate to commit that any of the above is the same as a single 3hr ride. But more time on the bike is more time on the bike. Might swap out my chamois though :stuck_out_tongue: for that second session.

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Yup:

I’ve been doing all of my zone 2 rides on the trainer. We have lots of short steep hills here, and if I were to keep my power/hr zone 2, I would be doing a lot of walking. (My driveway is 8% to the road, and there are some 11% sections coming back to the house).

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I’m not going to be able to dig up the info, but I have heard a couple of podcasts (FastTalk, I believe) address this. Unfortunately doing 2 rides doesn’t equate to one of the same duration. It just doesn’t work that way. Things happen to your body when you stop riding, so while that second ride might be under some level of fatigue (caused by the first) it won’t have the same effect as one 3 hour ride.

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I had the same “problem” too until I started doing long tempo intervals (mostly on the trainer…long means no less than 60mins for a single interval, low-mid tempo IF). After a few months, the outside hills put me in low/mid-tempo HR. And who cares where they put you in terms of power since it’s not a sustained effort. No one rides Z2-Z3 power up a steep incline. I just “low-cadence” my way for a minute or so, HR picks up a bit, and then settles back down. I believe because of this “disadvantageous” terrain I don’t have to dedicate sessions to low-cadence work. I get it for free.

The real issue becomes the descents. Very hard to get that low VI or little coasting/near coasting when you don’t want to die. Best I can do is about 13% Z1 (Coggan) and below for entire ride. When I come in with anything below 15% without focusing on it (or closer to 13% if I think about it the whole time), I’m happy.

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^ this. Long tempo and some low cadence - pure gold for me.

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Confused. Did you not just share your PD curve in the KM podcast thread, that showed you did better with lots of high intensity /short power, than sweetspot/tempo?

https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/kolie-moore-podcast-wisdom/30520/467?u=bbarrera

“2017 - 275W with a lot of work at tempo, threshold, and short power” was mostly work at tempo and threshold. The “and short power” was a bit unstructured and mainly max efforts around 1-min (two Strava segments). My body hasn’t respond well in the past to doing short power intervals, so I did what I could and that was full-gas short efforts. Back then I was loosely following the Carmichael Training Systems (CTS) approach (from the CTS Strava plans).

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But your FTP and TTE was higher than with lower intensity training? Or is it more that you just feel overall better now, even if your FTP is a bit lower?

Wrong thread.

Dunno, not sure how to answer and I never really pay much attention to TTE. When I do long testing its usually 50-65 minutes, so I’ve been happy with FTP estimation and ability to hold it.

Relative to 2017 and 2018, this year I hit 260W with very little perceived training effort (a lot of z2) but I was lacking punch. My college kids came home this spring and it was the last time to get the band back together before they strike out on their own. So it wasn’t really a complete season, but it did have the most z2 work ever and a lot less effort to essentially match 17-18 season and exceed calendar year 2018 results. Which means more recovery. Which means more strength training and possibility of improving short power. Will see how the 20-21 season develops.

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My n=1: I did all/only Z2 last summer. Being workweek constrained I couldn’t do long rides M-F, so I did a 1hr commute 4-5 days a week (8-10 rides/hrs). Sat/Sun were 3-4-5hr rides. The long rides (esp 5hr) really drove any fitness I had but all the short rides really underpinned my ability to do those long rides.

As someone else said, more time riding is more time riding.

(edit: I’ll add that even though the 5hr rides contained ~15% of Z3+ power, all of it was Z1-2 HR.)

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My n=1 is that I have been doing quite a lot of Z2 riding for most of this year on the trainer and after one of the best (and first ride outside for a while) rides of my life today I am convinced it was all those Z2 hours I clocked up.

I’ve noticed that my fat utilisation has increased, I’m a lot leaner, I seem to be able to operate at threshold for a lot longer (better lactate clearance), and I have noticed a lot for vascularisation in my legs which has popped up out of no where.

Z2 volume is king!

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I have been at 180bpm for an hour both in 2018 and 2019-seasons. Haven’t raced at all this year so no data from there. Would It be safe to presume that LTHR is 180bpm then? :slight_smile: