I guess I should have left the “+” off. 5x a week for 1500 each will yield massive gains for beginners compared to 2x a week for 1500 or 3k or 4k.
Short and often is the way to go. It’s the same with running. Frequency trumps distance or time until you’ve reached a plateau and only then do you need to start adding in distance and intensity.
If you have a good understanding about swimming and the proper way to do it… absolutely.
BUT swimming is NOT like running or cycling.
There is not amount of powering through or volume added that will make you faster. Its all about technique.
I am usually smoke by people who I would be surprised if they can run a mile non stop. They looks like chain smokers and they can swim laps around me.
I am following TR or Bike, 80/20 for Run and Swim.
I just started a Mid distance Full Ironman plan for Ironman Des Moines (6/12). I am getting a lot of AT modifications for the bike and run when I try to add/modify my run workouts for 80/20. Is there a way to accept AT on a work out by workout basis and not modify all my upcoming workouts at once for the next few weeks?
For cycling and running, I imagine that running 6 min/mile pace or doing 300 watts requires about the same physical feat from everyone, obviously not a perfect correlation but in general. For swimming, it seems to be the opposite. Better/faster swimmers use drastically less effort and energy than lesser/slower swimmers. For this reason, drills and technique-focused sessions can lead to more speed than interval sessions for people at certain levels on the learning curve (like me lol).
And not just beginners, covid measures when the pools opened last year meant maximum 45min per session so I started 4-5 times per week, weekday mornings, sometimes only 25mins swimming and saw big gains.
AT only modifies run workouts when a run workout is skipped. And it won’t modify bike workouts based on changes to run workouts.
Bike workouts are only adapted after a bike workout, and yes it’s a case of accepting all the bike workout changes or none.
And welcome to the thread, I’ve added you to the roll call.
I’m playing the smart-ass here…
And how do you improve swim technique by going to the pool less? No amount of not going to the pool is going to make you faster.
If you’re technique limited, go to the pool and work on technique. Use a pull buoy and do some drills you saw on a youtube video. Get someone to take some video so that you can see what you look like. Experiment with things (entry depth, narrower/wider entry, hand rotation on the pull) and see what makes you faster and what makes you slower for a given RPE. All of those things involve you getting your butt to the pool and into the water. The more often the better. None of those things involve powering through a 4x1k workout.
Also, don’t discredit what you can learn about technique by swimming fast. Drag is exponential and the feedback forces you can feel with your hands and arms grow and are easier to feel when you go fast.
I forget which pro (Sam Long maybe) talked about a eureka moment when he shifted his mindset that going to pool isn’t training to get stronger/faster, it’s practice.
I do not disagree with you.
Yes time in the water will make you better. But its not JUST time in the water or swim for 1500.
You need to practice form and technique (like you said).
I dont have the best relation with swimming.
I love going to the pool, but the pool doesnt love me back.
My form is not the best, and it seems like the fastest I try to go, the slower i end up.
I go to the pool 2-3 times a week (now just 2 since I am focusing on running), but each times i do no less than 2000y (max of 3200y). My gains have been marginal at best the last few months. Sure, I can swim comfortably @ 2:15 for 45 minutes. But If I even try to swim “fast” 100y I would be very happy if i can hit 1,55 constantly through out the set. Swimming 400y @ 2:05 is a huge challenge. I need to work on that and hopefully i will find what part of my swim is broken and will work to fix it.
Talk yourself up Joel, what you’re doing isn’t easy. Adult onset swimming is very often a slow process requiring lots of time and patience, but you’ll get there.
Working on it man…
A very very very slow process…
Joel I always think of you when I see swims like this in my Strava feed:
She still has a local house, but has basically moved to Kona. One or two of those swims a week…
That would be sweet…sadly the beaches in FL east cost are not the best for OWS
I hear ya. I’m a self taught adult onset swimmer too. It takes time and it’s super frustrating because progress is non-linear. You’ll be stuck at the same pace seemingly forever and then something will click and you’ll drop 10s/100.
I’ll throw out there two things from my data. First is the cumulative # of times I swam each year. Note the step change in 2017 when I did my first IM. Also note that I didn’t swim in the winter prior to the winter of 2019/2020.
Here are the swim splits from every Olympic distance tri I’ve done. Note the more or less no progress in 2014-2016 and the slow progression starting in 2017 and then the bigger jumps in 2018, 2019 and finally 2021.
There is zero doubt in my mind that increased frequency and maintaining that frequency though the winter is responsible for those gains.
And just for giggles, here are the swim splits from my first year in triathlon (also my first year swimming). In both of these races, the water was so low in the lake that I stood up halfway through to take a break.
It’s no surprise that us AG triathlete who swim 3 times a week will never be as fast a 12 year old girl.
I asked one of my friends that was a D1 collegiate swimmer what a typical training week was like when she was in college. It was ~10 sessions a week, 6 days a week, 5k minimum per day. That didn’t include dry-land work. She would swim more in a typical week than I would in a month.
Well that’s been a really great read for the last 30 mins getting my head around all this and probably forgetting it all by the morning. As I’ve mentioned before, I was treated to the 50m International pool before the pandemic but it’s been dissected into many 25m lengths. To begin with, 50 min booked slots seemed restrictive. However, I pay a monthly subscription since June 2020. I can now book back to back sessions, choose my start time and swim through the 10 mins, a double session that is common.
I’m careful to do this only if it’s not booked to capacity as it would be inconsiderate. In short, the whole booking on an app thing has been a great improvement in capacity driven by ironically by the pandemic.
The whole regular, shorter swims over long sessions theory makes sense to me. When I raced TT’s, the two biggest changes were to use the turbo more and ride every day, regularity was key, the body learned it had to recover quickly.
My 400/200 test I know was compromised trying too hard and compromising my technique. I’ll be sure I’m not crossing my centre line at the moment so I’m more stable in the water. It feels better but I’m not seeing speed changes yet. I’m considering concentrating on technique on one day and steady effort the next.
This is what I’m trying out, it seems like a good approach.
Gulf coast Joel! Make it happen, much nicer 
Join a Master’s program, that’s what I did when I started tri. Coach had me jump in and swim across the pool and back. When I got back to the wall, I was gassed. Hell, I thought I might have to stop during the lap. Next, he asked why I was there 
Then, he told me to come at least 3d/wk. 1mo later, he finally gave me workout. 3mo later, I was swimming 5d/wk 3000-3500m in an hour. It was exhausting when I started. It was exhausting 3mo later, but I was going faster and longer.
Coach and group training environment were huge for me. I could have never done that on my own like I can with running or cycling. It’s such a different beast.
I was in a master group in 2020…but they change the times and now it’s not at times I can go…
Also i heard the group grew quite a lot and the pool is quite small… So they are swimming 4 and 5 per Lane…not fast enough for that
That is so painfully true. On my Thursday swim I usually have the lane next to a junior team and boy do those girls kick my ass. In comparison it is worse than going out with the hammerheads on a Friday drop ride 
Thank you for this. It is very encouraging and re-assuring to hear. Hoping I’ll be able to stay consistent with my current frequency.
I see a pattern forming here and I like it. 
