Hi Scott,
yes, definitely kind of doubting the fitter.
Read a lot of the stuff on steve hoggs website about shimming, has me questioning everything!
I’ve got insoles made custom for my day shoes/trainers. and ive got custom insoles in my cycling shoes. The day shoe insoles have heel wedging, and no forefoot wedging, yet the cycling shoes have no heel wedging, and the two, different branded forefoot wedges.
Is it worth starting from 0 shims, and just the day insoles in my cycling shoes and setting up cleats from there? I notice steve hogg mentions a lot about proprioception, which resonates with me, i dont feel anything in my feet when i ride, its all just muted from the knee down.
Does varus wedging bring the knee out? if so… am I then bringing the knee out with these wedges, and then having to widen cleat to align with my foot? or does the wedging only align the ankle? Curious on the mentality behind wedging and if it’s actually required, and could this have been a reason I’m still dealing with the mild discomfort in the medial tibial/patella area.
Hi @noahphence,
I wasn’t casting aspersions on your fitter, just trying to ascertain how the decision had been arrived at since there are several ways to start with foot correction.
Starting from zero and gradually building up is a good way to go. Think about met buttons too.
Varus wedging stabilises the foot to help with knee tracking. Yes, it’s worth checking the lateral cleat spacing again when you’ve made any changes. Stick a laser over your second toe at the top of the pedal stroke and see if the knee tibial tuberosity is in line with it.
Not everyone requires wedging, if you’ve good vertical consistent tracking and no foot issues then what purpose do they serve?
If you can find a fitter experienced in Kinesiology they can conduct muscle testing to see if you’re better with or without them. Likewise inner soles too.
Cheers Scott
@jakesaunders Do you get the same issue on both bikes? I regularly see large differences between bikes that people say they’ve set up the same, particularly seat set back. How did you measure that?
What’s your flexibility like and how much stretching do you undertake?
Do you have a pelvic tilt that could be corrected?
It might not be bike fit related and could be metabolic.
Cheers Scott
Hi, thanks for the follow up.
Yes, same setback between bikes. I measured from the tip of the saddle to the center of the head tube, horizontally. The effective top tube lengths between the bikes is the same and as I mentioned the stack/reach is nearly identical.
I would rate my flexibility as average and I do stretch/strength train with a big focus on the glutes.
I do believe I have a pelvic tilt. I have always gotten saddle pain on the left side and from my perspective seem to sit a bit forward on the right side and back on the left side, if that makes sense. Almost as if I am tilted slightly left where the ride side is a bit more forward. From additional videos it looks fairly clear that my left side is much more open and my right closed. Although I’m not sure how to tackle a fit to accommodate that.
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Hi Scott,
I tried with and without wedges with my cycling insoles, and with and without wedges with my day insoles… didn’t seem to make a difference to my knee tracking, it (tibial tuberosity) always bisects above the second toe during the downstroke, but the knee always pulls out on the way up the upstroke.
I may be chasing something that isn’t the problem. My foot/cleat could be fine.
I had a bit of knee pain during the riding yesterday, and when i tensed my glutes, it seemed to disappear. I’ve been working on glute activation, but will try and find a kinesiology fitter.
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@jakesaunders
“Yes, same setback between bikes. I measured from the tip of the saddle to the center of the head tube, horizontally”
Are you running the same saddle then? Different saddles will have their 80 mm BRP in different places.
In terms of the pelvic tilt, this can be corrected if a functional difference by a fitter with the right experience. Steve Hogg also sells a correction kit which might interest you.
Cheers
Hi Noah,
I’d keep up with the rehab and strengthening. Good luck I hope it sorts itself.
Scott
Yep, same saddle and same saddle angle. I have a pelvic kit from Steve Hogg as well. I’m not the biggest believer in the whole magnetic field thing and after I’ve done it with his instructions I can’t say I’ve felt any difference.
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When using an inseam measurement, why do most have you measure in socks or bare feet?
Wouldn’t it make more sense to check in the shoes you’ll be wearing?
Hump
May depend on your exact purpose and intended use for that given measurement, but generally speaking these measurements are about your body specifically.
If you’re trying to use the formula to establish saddle height start point.
You are losing the sole thickness and possibly corrective insoles, that would effect total leg length I’d assume.
Hump
Depends on the formula you’re using, but I’d expect most of them to have a reasonable estimate for shoe and pedal stack height included in their math.
Besides, those should be considered only a starting point in saddle height, not an end. There are too many other influences on what may be a functional height for any rider.
I have a question about the best approach to raising my bars a bit.
My bike is a lauf true grit. I’ve had it 3.5+ years. Had a bike fitting shortly after I got it. Plenty of longer rides 100-150+ miles with it with no major body fit causing aches.
So Ive had some longer rides recently as I’m getting ready for a 100 mile event. My last couple of 3-4 hour rides over the last few weekends I’ve had some issues with my neck and just a bit with my lower back. More so with my neck though.
So I’m considering testing raising the bars a bit. I’ve tried some shorter reach bars and that didn’t seem to improve things so I’m thinking maybe raising the bars a bit might help.
My current stem is 90mm with 7 degree positive rise. I’m maxed out on spacers (30mm) below stem. So I guess I could get a pretty steep rise stem. Not sure I’d like that look.
To me, a bar with rise seems like the better option. Im considering the surly truck stop since it has 30mm of rise and could always move it down a bit since I have spacers to work with. Specialized hover I considered but that only has 15mm of rise so less wiggle room that.
Does this seem like a reasonable approach?
In addition, I’m addition on some daily stretching for my neck and some strength exercises for my traps.
Hi @TooManyDogs,
Obviously, I’m not aware of your history but you don’t mention if you’ve tried the cheapest and easiest test, removing some spacers and going lower. If this makes it worse then yes an increase in height would be next. If it makes it better, all good.
Cheers Scott
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I definitely could try lower. I guess I hadn’t considered that. It’s worth a shot. I do think I have the bars slightly higher than the original bike fit. Maybe higher by 10mm. I have a long ride tomorrow and these issues only ever come up after the 3-4 hour mark.
You also mentioned that you tried shorter reach, have you considered longer?
If your power output has increased from training it’s possible you want to go longer and lower.
could it not just be fatigue? how used to riding 4 hours are you?
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It could be. I’ve built up slowly to the 4 hours on the weekend. But it’s pretty in line what I’ve done in the past. But I’m not getting younger and maybe just need to build some more strength in my upper back neck area and make sure I’m stretching.
I’ve sort of been a bit in maintenance mode through the fall and really am just building up a bit for my race. But I do work with a coach and this race is basically a C race at best as my focus is Unbound 200 this year so this 100 mile gravel event will be more relaxed but a good time to test out nutrition and bike setup. So once that 100 miler is done I’m sure I will start “real” training.
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