I use 3:1 and maybe should’ve gone 2:1 with more density for my recent VO2max block. I’ve always felt the 5:1 of SSB plans was too much even as I was nailing workouts. By the time I got through SSB1/2MV I was always pretty trashed going into Build.
Let’s face it, if you’re doing these long SST progression workouts, you’re probably doing more volume than TR’s SSB plans unless you do SSBHV, which almost no one actually completes entirely. 3:1 has worked better for me thus far.
Doing intervals outside naturally sprinkles in short anaerobic efforts and improves my results. If I lived somewhere that required riding inside during sweet spot base, my initial thoughts from a year ago was to recreate that by using sim mode with RGT/FulGaz. Looking at Tim Cusick’s masters full season plan, he has “spikey” efforts in base4 alongside FTP intervals (actually, spikey efforts starting in base1 and continuing).
Everyone is different, FWIW that is what I’ve learned about myself. The other surprise from a year ago is how easy it was to go from short intervals to a field test and then 10 days later go out and nail a 1x50+ at my new threshold. Not going to claim it was repeatable (didn’t try), however it didn’t destroy me or derail training.
Looking at Cusick’s full season masters plan, he schedules PDC unstructured testing as the first workout after a recovery week.
In light of the training methodology used by most regulars in this thread and at the risk of derailing the thread, did anyone else listen to the release on adaptive training and kinda go, “That sounds really cool, but the workout library is still kinda the limitation for me, not what actually goes into the plan.”?
I’ve signed up for the beta so I can mess around with it, but especially as pertains to things like longer sweet spot and VO2max intervals, I don’t find things in the workout library that match what I want in the first place. Not sure AT will change my approach/experience with TR at all.
All that said, I am anxious to mess with it.
Yep, summed it up perfectly. I’m curious about the different ratings, and think it might be a good way for me to keep an eye on and touch up some elements I neglect more than I probably should.
I raised the issue for us as a thread already. They suggested 90% for 90 minutes as a 10 for sweetspot to which I showed them 120 minutes and told them, no no no, going to need some longer workouts here.
So at least they know that they need to do more.
I saw your post and smiled.
I agree. I think I might find it somewhat useful when I start training repeatability in preps for my race season. I found more use in the workout library in some of the anaerobic and billat-style intervals last season prepping for crits and circuit races.
Someone else’s response in the AT thread kinda nailed it for me when he said (paraphrasing), “Maybe we should temper our enthusiasm because Plan Builder was hyped and it’s kinda meh.”
Put it this way. I don’t think the AI is going to push me as hard as I will push me. And I’ve not cracked yet.
I’d like to try the AT, but have really gone away from doing programmed workouts. (And I can’t do the beta anyway, because my only TR-capable device is my android phone, and it’s not out for that yet).
I now just have an idea of what session I want to do, and just record it with my garmin. Without having erg on rollers, there isn’t that much reason to follow a blue line for me, and I like the flexibility of changing intervals or sessions while I’m doing them. Plus I don’t really need the hundreds of similar-but-slightly-different workouts in the TR library. If my aim is to increase TiZ in sweetspot for example, it’s easier just to do that, as opposed to finding the right workout. (And I can’t run the workout creator until they’ve released the new version).
I’d be interested to track my TR progression levels though, and see what my own training plan does to them. (Though I think AT currently only takes TR-workouts into account.)
The one issue I see with AT with regards to folks who race is it’s incapacity to program race-specific workouts for you. Let’s say you have a gravel even that has three decisive climbs, 5, 7, 9 minutes long. How would adaptive training have any idea what type of workout(s) you should be doing during your race prep, and at what point in the season? Or how about a sweet spot progression like we’ve been experimenting with in this thread?
I also disagree with Nate’s projection that coaching will fall to the wayside. This is 100% false and myopic thinking that doesn’t take into account the massive value a coach with EXPERIENCE brings to the table. AT can’t prep you for the highly specific demands of racing on various courses, etc.
Anyway, I’m a late adopter to most things tech-based and I don’t see any value in it at the moment. I much prefer programming custom plans based on what I’m looking to achieve. However, for the general population it’s probably going to be a very good tool. It’s exciting regardless.
Like so:
I have also a question about recovery during a SST block. Iam now in the 3th week and normally i should have next week a recovery week, but after the last recovery week (2 weeks ago) it is difficult for me to move op CTL again… Let’s me explain:
Normally my TSS is 600-700 a week. Week 6 i did my last recovery week. CTL 80 and TSB -22. After the restweek i started again with CTL 73 and TSB 16. Now 2 weeks later my CTL is 78 and TSB -4. Now iam afraid that my CTL is again lowering after the restweek. I know in rest your CTL is decreasing, but it takes a lot time to grow up again… Or do i had to long rest?
Iam riding about 9-12 hours a week…maybe 80CTL is the max for that duration…i dont have time to increase volume.
Now iam tinking about to do an extra week SST (4:1) or do i have to stick to the plan and do a half week rest?
ps: i have decided to do another extra 3 weeks SST block, because i think due covid we can race again after july. My idea is to stay as long as i can in SST as long as i make progress. So when i do next week a recovery week, i have again 3 weeks before i have again a recovery week:
Week 10 (next week): recovery week
Week 11: SST
Week 12: SST
Week 13: SST
Week 14: Recovery week
Week 15: FTP (april)
Week 16: FTP (april)
Week 17: FTP (april)
Week 18: Recovery week (may)
Week 19: Vo2max (may)
Week 20: Vo2max (may)
Week 21: Extra vo2max or recovery week
it depends…
I know your struggle but a CTL of 80 is for me also the max on that number of hours.
I stuck to the plan (3:1) and did a rest week (due to a cold) but taking a couple of days off should be enough depending on your recovery.
Do you think its a good idea to reinforce a duration before increasing it?
Assuming good nutrition and sleep, lets say I do 4x8m at 96% on Tuesday. Should I do that again on Thursday before moving up to 4x8m30s in the next week, or should I increase the duration on Thursday?
What do you mean by 4X8 at 96%?
Is the aim VO2max? 96% of FTP?
Sorry, 96% of FTP. I figured that would be implied since this is a sweetspot thread.
I know the answer is not as simple as just reinforce or don’t reinforce, but I’d still like to hear some opinions, even if they’re anecdotal.
To be honest I’d try for longer than 8 mins to start. You should be able to hold ftp for at least 40 mins really so 4 x 8 mins is too easy. 4 X 10 at least if few mins break between?
It hurt a bit and my HR was 10 bpm higher by the fourth interval. It felt productive so I’ll keep raising it from here. I haven’t really done any SS this winter.
I’m not far from 10 minutes now anyway, but maybe this is good enough of a reason to raise the duration tomorrow instead of reinforcing it.
32mins at SweetSpot seems worrisome.
i would first check if your FTP is set correctly. and if so, why not lower the percentage to say 88-92% of FTP? Then increase interval length significantly. 4x8mins should be a threshold workout which may be what’s happening at 96%. At 88-92% your adaptations will be similar as far as sweet spot goes and recovery will be better. Use 88-92 until.you can get your TTE out past 90mins and then increase the intensity would be my opinion
Now that you mention it. Looking back at the data I spent about 10 minutes above SS. Erg mode isn’t very smooth with my setup.
I’ll do this. Thanks.
Posted this before but seems the time to post it again…
I had been using 2.3 : 0.7,
looks odd but its 16 days ‘on’
then 5 days recovery
Starting on a Monday that is
2 complete weeks on (14 days)
5 days (weekdays Mon-Fri) recovery, two day off Mo-Tue, active recovery session Wed, short VO2max Thur, very easy endurance Fri
2 days on Sat-Sun rolling into the next two weeks as per my starting Mon sentence above.
Was working great from Oct - Feb. Then I decided to go back to 3:1 it didn’t work, coincided with some Dental work that ended up with no sleep for 3 nights, got through training okay, didnt realise that was running me down. By the end of the week I ended up getting a chest infection.
At the same time A event moved from June to Sept so after 2 - 3 weeks I’m starting back as if it is the end of Oct.
Anyway the point of my post is I liked the 16:5 day approach. I’m 48 and 5 days rest a bit sooner than 3 weeks i.e 16 days would be something I reccomend to anyone that building up fatigue quickly be it because of age or a large training load. These SST progression can be very heavy training loads.
