Sweet Spot Progression

I’d agree with the above. If you can’t manage 10-15 mins at sweetspot (let’s say at 90% of what you can hold for 40 mins plus…) then either

  • ftp is overestimated or
  • your overtired and better to have rest day (or v easy ride) instead
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Tim also suggests that, when looking at the PD curve, and seeing divots, etc. to also do maximal efforts of that time as well, to round out the curve.

The FTP test they suggest is also different than the normal 20 minute test. It’s by phenotype now. 20 minute for TTers, 30 minute for all-rounders. 50 minute (IIRC) for sprinter types.

I’m into my SS progression which will culminate with a 4x20 on week 5, week 6 is a rest week and then it’s on to something else as I have a race at the end of May. I figure that 80 minutes of TiZ at SS is a good amount for 2.5-4 hr gravel events. Would like to push that further when I can start riding outdoors.

That said, I’ve determined that the next 8 week block coming off this SS progression will include a 3-week block of threshold workouts followed by a rest week, and then a 3 week block of VO2 max race-prep.

For the threshold block, I’m doing fatigued-state workouts that have me starting at 3x10 @ FTP (or slightly above, TBD), 3x12, then 3x15. All of which happens after 30-min of tempo. I’ll couple these with a second workout of the week that is an over-under progression. I’m hoping this will bring on some FTP adaptations before I go into a rest week and then a 3-week block of VO2 work.

I’m curious to know if the FTP work will maintain my fatigue resistance that I built up with this SS progression or if I should throw in a 1x45 or 1x60 @ SS every 2 weeks in order to maintain.

No, actually that’s not the problem. I have managed to do 1x75 interval just a couple of weeks ago and am planning on progressing to 90 minutes next.

Exactly. Some days, I know I have a hard workout ahead and I generally feel “good”, but simply find doing longer intervals daunting, so I was wondering what I would leave on the table if I picked the mentally much easier task.

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As I said I agree with the sentiment of TiZ over longer intervals. I too can’t stand 40+min intervals of SST and would far rather do 4x30 than 1x60.

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Few things to unpack here:

  1. If you’re targeting tempo to fatigue focus on lower/mid range tempo, make sure you are not setting this at the top of the range which makes it more like SST. If you can doing long high end z2 is likely better.
  2. Target 97-100% FTP, anything above is going to put more fatigue than necessary and reduce TiZ, this reducing overall effectiveness of the work you are doing
  3. Any reason you are starting at 30min of TiZ? Seems low. Starting with a 4x10, 3x15, 2x20, 4x15, etc. may be a better way to progress always pushing to go longer.

Thanks for the feedback…my answers in bold.

With SST I am opposite :slight_smile: I cannot mentally stand doing another 40 minutes interval after the brake - it is way easier to me to do 80 min than 40 minutes. I also have the same with threshold - 8x10 is the hardest workout for me mentally, when 4x20 is great. I observe this also with vo2 max. Maybe it’s the reason I do not like 30/15? :slight_smile:

I’ve scheduled out the first 3 weeks of my extensive phase. It looks okay on paper…

Plan is to progress to 50min Threshold and 75min SS at my new FTP (post-vo2 block). Depending on stress outside of training, how I’m feeling, and based on my last SS-only extensive phase, I hope to get a little bit longer than that. We’ll see what happens :slight_smile:

I found some extra time on Tuesday mornings, so I’m going to make those the longer days with threshold work built into them. Gym sessions on Wednesday and Friday 3+hours after riding. I am rarely to ride on Sundays, so that will be a full day off. TSS avg is around 650 per week, 10-12hrs per week on the bike. If short on time, I’ll make my Tuesday rides shorter, and if I have extra time, I’ll make Saturdays longer… Unfortunately, the weather is looking pretty bad here for the next few weeks, and with school and work I’ll be lucky to get any of these outdoors. Hopefully can find a good series to watch :slight_smile:

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Love the long endurance with efforts:) this are hard workouts but highly enjoyable. I would only change tuesday - 5x10 for 3x20. I find better results from longer intervals - but this is personal observation.

Generally I am the same, I think it is just how different people frame completing the TiZ in their mind, the logic or coping mechanisms they use. But then some days I just want to break it up more, or ramp the effort finishing stronger.
Sometimes I will do a workout, same TiZ, in a format that I do not generally prefer. Accepting that is challenge to me mentally. I hopefully come up with a way to deal with it, causing myself the least mental stress possible. I think it is useful to train this aspect of your game.

After all, when your are in an event you often don’t get the choice of how often or how long you have to put the efforts in.

This is my reasoning and try to fight it. But if I have a choice I would always choose less intervals and longer time. Not to mention that I like the feeling of beeing in the zone mentally during this efforts. So probably I am a perfect TTer without watts and CdA of a barn :smiley:

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I did a SST progression till 1x90’ and after a long rest week (had a cold), I was able to do a 1x45 @ FTP.
I did 2 FTP sessions a week and a long tempo/SST ride in the weekend (till 2h45 @ tempo in 1 block). I’m sure you can also do that, and it is benificial for your target race!

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I have been using 3 minutes rest for my sweet spot progression up to 90 minutes. What is the rule of thumb for rest between threshold intervals? Are people using a constant amount like 5 minutes, or a percentage of the intervals?

5 min is enough. 3 min is harder but also works, especially with shorter 10 and 15 min intervals.

I normally just use a constant 5min personally. If I’m feeling good I may on rare occasions shorten it (mid-workout) or i I’m feeling bad I’ll extend it. I don’t find much benefit in manipulating RBI during long sweetspot intervals personally so just keep it easy. I’ll manipulate RBI on Vo2 max workouts but that’s about the only time where I don’t just use a constant

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Yesterday i would do 3x20 SST but failed. After increasing my FTP from 280 to 292w i have problems to finish a SST workout. In the morning i did strength. My FTP is from WKO5 with a well fit pdcurve. My TTE is 43min. Maybe i start to hard with 93%. Is it better for me to do the blocks in the 88-90% range? WKO5 give for SST 257-278w.

1th block 20min avg 272w (93%)
2th block 11min avg 268w (92%)
3th block 11min avg 264w (90%)

Yeah, I’d say do them at an intensity you can complete, since getting the time in zone is more important than hitting an exact power. Also maybe ride before strength training, unless strength is your priority right now.

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Because of work it is for me not possible to riding Zwift 1.5h during the lunchbreak, but i can do 45min strength, thats why i do strength in the morning and riding in the evening.

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I would make your rides low-intensity on your strength days then.

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