Sweet Spot Progression

We really need to just start a WKO planning thread here. :laughing: This thread jumps from SST to FTP training to VO2max blocks, to how to use WKO, and back again.

Lemme answer a couple of questions:

@anthonylane I wouldn’t use that progression. It’s not aggressive enough, frankly. Tim even says “this isn’t a progression I would ever program.” Place to start, sure, but spend the time to parse through the thread and there are some good progressions listed here.

WRT how to use your power curve, you can follow some of the advice that says for a specific interval target time, use 95-97% of the PDC. E.g. if you want to bang out 20 minute intervals, go to your PDC at 20 min, take 97%, and presto - that’s your 2x20 threshold workout. For 5 minute intervals, same. Do some maximal efforts periodically and this can be a very effective way to train, as it bases your interval targets off of what you’re actually capable of at each level, instead of tying it all just to FTP.

That’s a very crude description of interval targeting via PDC, but it’s the gist. I’m sure I’ll get blasted by another coach for being so crude in that description. :blush:

@Kipstrong You can either aim for 97-98% or you can use the advanced interval targeting view on WKO for the interval length you want and go from there.

@RONDAL For PDC maintenance, during most of these blocks my “testing” was as follows:

  • Recovery/Test week - KM FTP/TTE test protocol (this usually also satisfies the “aerobic” residual.
  • Sprint test - week 1 following recovery, usually on my short mid-week Z2 ride. I warm up, bang out a couple sprints and LT1 the rest.
  • Long test (if I feel like I need to do it) - week 2, as the workout, this is anything from like max 8 minutes to max 60 min. If it’s a max 8 min test, I’ll do that, then zip some tempo for an hour. Max 60 is just the workout.
  • Medium test - week 3 - usually as part of a workout, maybe the first interval followed by some SST or tempo time after.

That’s more than you probably need to have a good PDC, but I like doing maximal efforts too.

@russell.r.sage I programmed two SST workouts, one long tempo ride and two endurance rides each week. My format:
M - SST progression
T - 1hr Z2 + speed sprints
W - Tempo (or maybe SST or testing if legs are good)
R - Off
F - SST progression
Sa - Long (3-4hr) Z2
Su - Off

Hope that helps!

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I agree lets do that. Wko thread.

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In the other KM wisdom thread that was deleted. There was a lot of good info about doing a v02 block but I can’t remember the details.

I want to do a 2 week v02 block before returning to a sweetspot and threshold block (currently I can do sweetspot at 90+% for plenty of time but really struggle with 3 min intervals at 118-120% so figure might be time to ‘raise ceiling’).

What do people suggest for a v02 block - I seem to remember people suggesting 3 v02 workouts a week on consecutive days (say Mon,Tues,wed) then easy rest of week than repeat following week… or people think better to space out the 3 workouts across the week to recover a little and hit higher power/More interval time etc?

Aim is to do stuff like 6x3 min, 5x4min and 4x5 min

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I’m confussed about all the different POL threads and SST threads I post on. Often look for a comment, cant find it and it is on a similar related thread. lol

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@anthonylane Building Intervals the WKO5 Way - YouTube
Releasing the Power of Sprint Training with WKO4 - YouTube
Periodization Planning and Review with WKO4 - YouTube
Watch wko webinars, there is a lot of info there, especially when they go deep into details.

@RobertSims
Test 5 min power.
3x vo2 max day after day, rest of the week - active recovery
Second week - the same

Intervals progression - start with the longest (for example 3x6) and progress downward (4x5, 5x4, 6x3,5, 7x3, 8x2,5) or start with the longest you can hold (for example 5x4, 6x3,5, 7z3) and repeat the next week the same configuration. Target is 20 min in vo2 max, this should give you around 15 min of real waterboarding…I ment vo2 max work.
Then rest. Adaptations are usually visible after 2-3 weeks. Test 5 min power after to check the imorovements.

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Super helpful, thank you.

Just in recovery week now, then 2 weeks of v02, then another easy recovery week, then into another sweetspot block with bit of threshold too.

Will also be doing 3 runs a week (a long with the 3 rides).

Sound ok?

If you also running go full hardcore:

The results: The average weekly increase in Vo2 max was 0.12 l/min. The total increase in Vo2 max averaged 16.8 ml/kg per min (44%).

If not - it sounds ok :slight_smile:

Sorry…was that for me. Can’t see article right now? What main points? Actually fine v02 work much easier to tolerate when running than cycling. Wonder how well it crosses over…I.e. focus in v02 with running…and helps v02 power on bike?

This is great, thank you.

Awesome, thank you

@RobertSims sorry, it was for you. Vo2 max is vo2 max no matter how you rise it. Muscles adaptations are other thing.

And protocol:

Hickson Protocol (Long intervals, continuous work) [17]

  • Ride 3 times a week, run 3 times a week (or presumably supplement with comparable rides).
  • On ride days perform 6 X 5 minute intervals at an intensity eliciting VO2max (near maximal) with 2 minutes of rest between each effort.
  • As weekly fitness improves continue to increase your power output on intervals, always eliciting a near maximal effort.

The protocol consists of exercise 6 days per week for 10 weeks. On days 1,3, and 5 the workout is six 5-minutes maximal cycling intervals separated by 2-minutes of easy cycling. On the alternate 2,4, and 6 it is 40 minutes of hard running. The figure below shows that when untrained subjects first used the protocol they achieved vast increases in maximal oxygen consumption (VO2 max) over the course of the 10 weeks of training.

Protocol for runs? No way I can handle 5 min intervals on 2 mins rest…to be fair think can’t manage 6 x 5 mins full stop!:joy: 4 x 5 min maybe!

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It was completed by different participants, not highly trained athletes. The protocol is extremely hardcore and probably will derail your training for a month but the gainnzzz :wink:

And the weightloss as a bonus:
image

And vo2 max improvements:
image

Edit:
And I have forgotten - it is 10 wk training program. Can you imagine?

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Another vote for WKO thread!

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Thanks so much. Pretty good increase afyer 2-3 weeks too

Unfortunatelly not 3 but 10 weeks of 6 days of vo2 max :slight_smile:

Yes, but was looking at the by week results

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Are you advocating for splitting this content?

Reason I ask there is already a WKO thread; WKO5 is here and it looks... different

While the title might not reflect the content any longer, I would hate to see the content split over multiple threads as there is a pretty solid base of users within this thread all following a similiar approach to training which if summarized largely follows the WKO webinar methodology, starts with extensive (SST Progressive) and moves into intensive (threshold) before VO2.

Thanks for pointing that out. I’m familiar with that thread. I was wondering if it’d be more appropriate to have all of the WKO webinar methodology in a WKO-focused thread for ease of searching, but really either way is fine. I certainly understand your point on not wanting to split the content.

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Ask the OP to edit the title a bit? Maybe?

Back to the topic…after 3x30 I was aiming for 1x105:

The first part was a Zwift Meetup Race with some mates and the finish was a little hectic…took some seconds to setup a workout for the rest and settled back in just a little under and then into SS again.
(HR was higher than supposed pretty early (due to the race excitement and little surges here and there))

I take it as a success …any opinion on not counting this as a valid 1x105’?

Not keen on progressing to 120 :sweat_drops: and not keen on jumping to intensive aerobic yet :man_shrugging:…maybe inserting a little block with focus on running :thinking:

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