Thanks for posting this. Interesting that you alternated weeks with 2 workouts then 1.
I’ve never thought to do this, but it looks like it could be a good way to manage fatigue while trying to incorporate a block of strength training with a sweet spot progression that also includes some over-under work. By doing this it will allow me to get in two strength days on the weeks where I’m doing one sweet spot ride versus trying to balance 2x sweet spot rides per week AND 2x strength sessions…which would be too demanding. The other option was to go 2x sweet spot and then drop down to 1x day per week of strength.
If I follow your method above I get something like this, which looks really nice on paper. 4 good sweet spot sessions and 3 good over/under sessions all within 5 weeks.
Just checked a Tim Cusick presentation that was linked earlier in this thread and saw he has a sample FTP progression (page 31)…given your current form you could probably adjust the interval durations accordingly.
In all of these plans that you guys are posting, when are you doing your testing and what are you doing for PDC maintenance?
I just did ramp test on Sunday, 1min power test on monday. mFTP bumped from 313 to 323 and then back down to 299 with the 1min power test. I now need to schedule a 25-30min test this weekend as the front end of the curve is clearly pulling the back end down.
Short power testing (I hate short power) - usually during some recovery week - do and forget. 5 min - after vo2 max block or when 5 min is close to fall off from 90 days, 20-30 - honestly, never because I do not care. And long 60 min when I feel my FTP went up. If I would want PDC to be really properly maintained I would need do only tests, not the workouts
Short tests after recovery week. Medium tests depends. When needed at end of the first week after recovery week and i use Zwift races for longer FTP tests around 40-50min with trainer difficulty at 0%
You need to be careful with Tim Cusick’s slides. When you watch the videos he often calls out reasons why they are misleading (maybe too strong a word). Including slides with interval progressions.
Not sure I follow the logic on this one. You use WKO model to provide wattage targets and TTE metrics to base your training around, but then you dont feed inputs in properly on a semi-regular basis? Seems like a great way to get garbage in/garbage out and I would question what the point of using WKO is in the first place.
WKO does not advocate for updating the model weekly, but on a semi-regular basis or after step change in training or lack thereof.
Not use WKO to provide me the wattage, why would I? If I know that my TTE is 60 min, because I test it so I know what FTP work I can do, anything below FTP - done by feel, Pushing my 20 min would not change the model more than couple of watts as my 20 min is not so much different from 60 min, pVO2 max - good to know rough guide but vo2 workouts done by feel. And do not train short power - this is only my fault.
I use wko for everything other than targeting power. An my model is pretty maintained - everything is inside 90 days range.
Moving into a threshold block following a KM FTP test, what percentage of FTP would be the target for training reps? Listening to KM podcast he doesn’t give a specific percentage so I’m guessing 100%?
I am pretty new to WKO, so don’t have a lot to add, but I thought I’d mention my experience as something not to do…
So far, I tried the short test (which worked out to be 45s) in the recovery week on a Tuesday and the long test on the Sunday. I also had two similar tests for running in there (I’m using a ‘power’ meter for that as well).
In hindsight, I can see why I botched the Sunday test, way too ambitious a schedule, but on the plus side, it didn’t matter too much because I felt rested coming into the next block. I think I need to be a bit more patient with the testing, but overreached because of my enthusiasm for WKO.
I have a question about the tests more generally, is it cheating to use erg mode to set the target power? I am hopeless at pacing sprints and short power (I’m a triathlete) so feel like I am underachieving in my tests, so under (or over) representing my PDC. I suspect that answer is to be better at pacing .
Once you had a solid PDC created, maintenance is simply a matter of reviewing residuals, and during a 90 day block touching up those points.
Personally what I do for maintenance is every 4-5 weeks (following a block of training ex. SST) is do a ramp test on one day, followed by a 20-30min FTP test the next. So for example last Sunday I did a ramp test, I wanted to do a 20-30min FTP on Monday but just didn’t have time, so will do this Saturday.
That typically validates my ramp test or tweaks where I need to be slightly (usually down a few watts).
Then through the 4-5 week block I’m doing I’ll toss in a workout where I hit a 1min or 5min if they haven’t been touched in a while just to ensure the model stays semi up to date.
What I found especially while doing a lot of SST is that because I wasn’t going above 90%, and was doing all long intervals, my short power residuals started to drop off and it was messing with my model results. Quick workout sorted that out. During the summer when riding outdoors dont typically have this issue as the riding intervals and efforts are far more varied.
Can I ask, why do you do the ramp test? Not trying to be sassy or picky or whatever but if you can do 30 min test why not hold the power some more and have real ftp not estimated from random number generator?
Fair question; the answer is pacing.
Put simply, i suck at it. Short efforts I am OK at, anything longer than 4min I need a pacing target as I go out FAR too hard and end up in a hole.
The ramp test is AN assessment, but I know it skews a certain way given my anaerobic engine. Doing a 20-30min test at my ramp test result allows me to validate whether or not I can rely on my ramp test result, or whether it needs to come down, and also provides a target to at least try and hold for the duration in question for pacing purposes.
Ok, that explains a lot - thank you. And to be hones I find pacing longer tests - 40-60 min a lot easier than 20 min. I cannot pace 20 min test, but pacing methodology from KM - do 10 minutes around 90-92% of your current FTP and then gradually increase the power till you find the power you can hold but if you go above found power you start to fatigue is basically bulletrpoof for me. Sounds hard but works every time and there is this magic point that you feel that going above for 2-3 min you start to loose strenght and your breathing changes, so then lower the power below that point.
This is something I am actually actively working on as we go through the extensive and intensive progressions, is paying attention to how it FEELS so that outdoors I can pace better without having to be looking down as often at head unit.
That feeling in and around threshold is just not as granular for me as it needs to be, and some are far better at it. I find I’ll go at what I think it threshold and look down and I am going at 120% of where I should be. Leads to a very saw toothed effort where I overshoot, overcook, undershoot, recover…rinse and repeat.
Doing the Ramp test and longer form test is IMO an intelligent approach especially at certain times of year. Temporally covers the PDC 1 - 6 minutes, if you are not sure how to pace 4 - 6 minutes (I see you mentioned 4 minutes.) It also gives a ballpark to aim for in a longer FTP assessment.
It must be an intelligent approach because I’ve taken this approach multiple times
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